Westministenders: The Beginning of Negotiations

[RedToothBrush]

Transition has a few hours left.

Then negotiations start and trade stops.

Far from being over, there are huge numbers of issues that lay unresolved.

And businesses both now in the UK and EU will cease to trade with each other just because the red tape is such a pain.

So whilst people will celebrate and think things are 'done' that just shows how much people are paying attention.

It will be interesting to see people gradually realising what has been lost...

The only positive outcome I can see is that there is no-one left to blame.

Do not kid yourself! Already seen on other threads that the EU 'tried to wreck us over the settlement'. The other candidates will be all those Labour MPs who voted for last night's bill. I can tell you who it won't be: it won't be Johnson and his cronies.

I don't post often but have followed these threads for 2 years. Thanks to everyone who has contributed and don't give up hope

I've been lurking for years. Thank you all. I'm going to try to cut my news intake in 2021, it does no good, so I hope i won't be lurking for much longer. I got Dutch passports for the kids when Cameron called the referendum because I thought Leave would win, now I'm trying to persuade them to study over there. I have no EU passport but I have an American one. Whatever the DC decide to do, 3 more years to get their A levels done and then I will likely leave. Don't know where yet but it's pretty much Scotland or the US to escape Little England as I've no right to go anywhere else. Britain used to be good. So long all (and thanks for all the... No. I've heard enough about bloody fish as well.)

@RedtreesRedtrees

Remainers shouldn’t be disheartened. Tonight marks the start of a new relationship with the EU, but it is just a fragile and temporary status quo, not the end point that Brexiteers claim. In the years ahead our relationship with Europe will continue to transform as successive governments renegotiate the relationship. There will be new deals, disputes, challenges and opportunities. It is for remainers to steer the future towards tighter integration, even if that (for the time being) falls short of membership. And at every stage we must hold Brexiteers to account. We have everything to play for.

Nothing will happen until it's fucking obvious that the UKs not being in the club is not the advantage it was sold as. History suggests that's going to be about 15 years.

You then need a consensus pushing to engage for closer ties. And that will only succeed if you can find a de Gaulle figure to tell the UK "Non" (which translates into English as "go fuck yourselves"). We would never have been interested in joining in the 1960s if it wasn't for the sheer thought that France didn't want use to.

By then - what 2035 ? - who knows what the EU will look like, and how it will act. The only thing I would be willing to bet on is that the entire world order will have shifted and look nothing like the 1990s world that the UK thought it was rejoining after Brexit. China will have ensured it's the worlds biggest everything. India and it's neighbours will provide a robust counterbalance to that locally. Africa will be starting to make sense as a continent. Leaving the ragtag of the Americas (christ knows how the US is going to end up) and the logical bloc of the EU and it's close allies (not you Britain).

With climate change snapping at all our heels, of course.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-britain-india-immigrants-accept-more-free-trade-deal-diplomat-warning-yk-sinha-a8073516.html

Britain needs to accept higher levels of immigration from India if it hopes to sign a free trade deal after Brexit, a senior Indian diplomat has warned.

YK Sinha, India’s High Commissioner to the UK, warned that after Brexit it may take up to a decade for the two countries to negotiate a free trade deal and the “freer movement of people and professionals” would be a crucial component of it.

....

My Grandad (born in Darjeeling) would agree ....

The deal is very thin and we have a vast range of issues to address starting next year. There won’t be a conscious push for integration, it will be piece by piece and at the technical level that most people won’t notice, just as it was before. Things like Erasmus will be reestablished. Similarly our security relationship will be deepened. Travel restrictions will start to be altered and so on ad infinitum. Our relationship with the EU won’t be stuck on the BOJO deal for 15 years

Pmk thanks all.

There won’t be a conscious push for integration, it will be piece by piece and at the technical level that most people won’t notice, just as it was before.
THIS
It will be like the lobster in the pot
incremental steps that move the perspective until its done
not with a bang but with a whisper

PMK

Brexit starts at 11pm tonight and I don't expect it ever to be over.

But let the brexiteurs have their brief "Brexit is over" moment ;)

We’ll ask the EU if we can rejoin Erasmus and they’ll agree in exchange for a contribution towards the costs. We’ll agree on a ‘one off basis’....

Thanks Red. Thanks to all contributors on these threads, long may they continue.

A Happy New Year to you all.

@RedtreesRedtrees

We’ll ask the EU if we can rejoin Erasmus and they’ll agree in exchange for a contribution towards the costs. We’ll agree on a ‘one off basis’....

I can't see that. The entire narrative of Brexit was to kick the posh and the educated in the 'nads. The fact it was led by the posh and educated and really only benefits the posh and educated speaks volumes about those that cheered for it.

This thread is interesting. Brexit ideology hitting reality.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4121129-Deliveries-to-Northern-Ireland

These threads are excellent and long may they continue, but they may be a bit of a burden for RTB to keep them going.

What’s happened to BCF? Is she ok?

Pmk

I was going to bring as thanks to all of you for these threads.

But on consideration I feel is probably better.

Chin chin, and thankyewver'much...

As long as they don't block the internet, I'll continue listening to my favourite radio stations; Classic Praha, Yle Klassinen, Rai Radio 3 Classica, Radio Swiss Classic, and France Musique - Classique Plus (currently playing Suk's Asrael symphony - such a powerful piece).

@DGRossetti do you think we’ll even notice? It will be a footnote in the Mail. The lobbying will have already begun. Side deal after side deal...The EU and UK will discover very quickly that tighter security co-operation is a must. That will be an easy sell. Other areas will follow under the radar. Within 5-10 years our relationship will have transformed again.

@TatianaBis

These threads are excellent and long may they continue, but they may be a bit of a burden for RTB to keep them going.

What’s happened to BCF? Is she ok?

BigChocFrenzy is fine but is taking a break from MN I am sure that if RedToothBrush needs some help setting up threads she'll shout at one of us

Sadly I think that this board will outlive many of those who voted to take back control

The wonderful Led By Donkeys.

@RedtreesRedtrees

We’ll ask the EU if we can rejoin Erasmus and they’ll agree in exchange for a contribution towards the costs. We’ll agree on a ‘one off basis’....

After the Government has paid millions to a crony or cronies to set up the Turing scheme, only for it to fail because the UK won't pay enough to make it attractive to universities (remember, Bloody Stupid Johnson complained that Erasmus was "extremely expensive), and because it will screw up the visa process for incoming students.

The above will take some years.

Oh bellini, that's made me cry.

I can't see that. The entire narrative of Brexit was to kick the posh and the educated in the 'nads. The fact it was led by the posh and educated and really only benefits the posh and educated speaks volumes about those that cheered for it.

I would reserve judgement until the uptake figures for Turing become available but Erasmus was disproportionately used by those from the most economically privileged backgrounds while the government has committed to "target students from disadvantaged backgrounds and areas which did not previously have many students benefiting from Erasmus+". Hopefully, if an improvement is seen, the models employed could help guide Erasmus to also become more inclusive.

Gronky
I would reserve judgement until the uptake figures for Turing become available but Erasmus was disproportionately used by those from the most economically privileged backgrounds
Evidence please
as none of the Brits / Welsh / Irish / Scottish that my child met through Erasmus fit your description.
The whole point of Erasmus is that it is free to families.
darned sight cheaper than UK hall fees that's for sure