The Silence is Deafening

[Crankley]

For the last however long, I have read threads and posts by Remainers stating confidently that the Prime Minister wanted a No Deal, would get a No Deal. Here are just a few quotes. Some Remainers may recognise their own predictions:

'He is going to give us No Deal and then fuck off into the sunset with millons in bungs from his crooked mates,'

'I'm pretty certain on no deal...'

'I fully expect a No Deal Brexit.'

'Bojo will 'deliver' no deal and then F off into the sunset'

'Boris Johnson and your disingenuous divs - How dare you try and spin a NoDeal'

'He was elected to not get a deal and to make his supporters feel good about the fact the had stuck it to the man (or something).'

There are lots more if you want them.

Now he has obtained a deal, where are all the threads by remainers? Do any have the the guts to hold up their hand up and say 'I was wrong'?

Hurray! Clav's back.

She has managed to get rollover deals

Which we can update/improve on, e.g.

9 December -
"The UK and Canada have today signed a trade agreement in Canada."

"Both countries to negotiate a new, tailor-made UK-Canada trade deal in 2021."

www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-canada-sign-trade-agreement

Hurray! Clav's back.

i.e.. we might negotiate something better in the future.

What was it about easiest deals in history, done in an afternoon?

I doubt if we will be importing all our lettuces from Canada any time soon.

I would hope that the EU/UK deal is a starting point and that we will become closer partners.

We've so much in common and much to gain by working together, with his 80 seat majority Bojo shouldn't be bound by his loony right.

with his 80 seat majority Bojo shouldn't be bound by his loony right.

He shouldn't be, but the trouble was the moderate ones lost the whip last year. I think he did restore the whip to most of them before the election so they could have stood, but by then the a bunch of Tory Brexiter clones had been selected for the seats.

We will have a great relationship with the EU in the future. In 10 years the only age group in which Leave has a majority - the 60 pluses will be depleted - dead and in care homes. In 10 years we will have had a decade of economic humiliation and social unrest. We will eventually go limping back to the EU, chastened and more willing to work together.

The price may well be our currency. And we will never have again the kind of deal we had originally. But the fall that comes after hubris is generally very good for the soul.

It will take a long time for the U.K. to regain trust and respect of the international community. We would have be able to demonstrate that we had thoroughly conquered the ignorant nationalistic mindset that lead to national disaster, as it has for many other countries before us.

Tatiana gosh, what a debbie downer

cebr.com/reports/cebr-comment-on-the-provisional-brexit-deal/

It will take a long time for the U.K. to regain trust and respect of the international community. We would have be able to demonstrate that we had thoroughly conquered the ignorant nationalistic mindset that lead to national disaster, as it has for many other countries before us

If there are goods to be sold and money to be made I wouldn't expect the above to be much of an issue for very long tbh.

the trouble was the moderate ones lost the whip last year

Not all of them had a 'moderate' view on Europe though. In March 2020 Dominic Grieve joined the National Council of the European Movement.

"The European Movement is a network of organisations that has mobilised citizens and advocated for a democratic, federal and enlarged union since 1948."

A 'federal' Europe is not a 'moderate' view in my opinion.

"Unelected bureaucrats"

Boris did it! Definitely a new optimism for the New Year.

@EmmanuelleMakro What does someone like me have to look forward to? I studied Business Studies at uni and managed to get a job at a tech company in London, we've been told if there was tariffs on services then our company would look to move most of our business to our European subsidiaries. Google, Facebook, etc are based in Ireland so it's just easier to deal with EU based companies for them.

My sister works for an investment bank and was put at risk of redundancy along with hundreds others just before Christmas as losing the passporting access means they will be moving her department to Frankfurt. They have already moved half the business and most of the money there.

My best friend works for a advertising agency in Manchester, they are moving all their business to Paris and Madrid, again for tax purposes. She is being made redundant.

All of us worked studied and worked hard all our lives to get into these positions. What do we do now? There's a fair few million just like us. What does this mean for public services and redistribution of wealth across the country bearing in mind we won't earn the kind of money we have done so won't be paying higher taxes for the betterment of society and the companies we work for won't be paying vat, corporation tax, etc into the UK treasury?

We can't all become fishermen!

Jas, bellini, clav, pere and rtb are a good spectrum of posters to me - i like to read their posts and debates; warts and all. Although I do admit to having a soft spot for dxha and her well placed full stops.

What does someone like me have to look forward to?

You're asking in the wrong place: for all the talk of coming together, this thread shows that stoking division and gloating about the misfortune of others is still the Brexit way. They won, you lost. It doesn't matter that what they won is at most a rhetorical victory whereas you and many others will experience material losses. You're just collateral damage.

But this divisive behaviour - this failure to win graciously - will backfire horribly when those parts of the U.K. that don't support the Brexit project decide that their destiny lies elsewhere.

The less informed, less educated Leavers may crow as they believe they have won the battle, but the they have lost the war nonetheless. They just don’t know it yet.

I'm always troubled with the war rhetoric from some leave voters, it isn't a game and just sows more division. If the EU vote had gone the other way, I wouldn't have seen it as remain had won and leave had lost, I would have just been glad.

The situation is so complex, I think it will take us all a while to work out exactly what we have lost.

Cross posted.

Once the language of them and us and finding differences subsides, which it will, then e can all get back to our converstions that find our commanalities and points of agreement and then disagree on things.

This type of converation isn't dependent on a Membership with pre-determined Rules but found everywhere at grassroots level whereever any humanity lives.

Why complicate simplicity?

I'm afraid I will never be a Brexiteers "us". But it'll be fun watching them try to "move on" on their own.

The situation is so complex, I think it will take us all a while to work out exactly what we have lost.

Over a thousand pages of text, so anyone who claims to have a considered view of who won what is a big fat lying fraud.

OTOH there are legal and sector experts starting to publish opinions on parts of the text.

The news on fish looks bad (unless you are French fisherman): in the words of one trade expert "Must say on reading the fishing text the extent to which the UK conceded is simply jaw dropping. Our share of the allowable catch goes up and .... that's it. Any subsequent attempt to change this and we may face tariffs on the catch." (I think the impact of the MUTANT VIRUS clusterfuck is very visible here).

OTOH there appears to be some good news on aviation and rules of origin (I don't make any claim to understand the latter but people who do seem pleasantly surprised).

It'll be several days or weeks before all the ramifications are understood and I suspect that - as with the withdrawal agreement - it won't be many weeks before some of Johnson's cheerleaders are expressing unhappiness at parts of the deal.

I'm always troubled with the war rhetoric from some leave voters, it isn't a game and just sows more division.

I find it crazy that people see it almost as though their sports team has beaten another sports team. Politics should never be that way, it means peoples views become so entrenched that they can't support or even take on board others point of view or see reason.

I see working class people supporting the likes of Farage, Jacob Rees Mogg, Iain Duncan Smith and even 'Boris'. They see them as team members of their team but don't look any deeper than that. These are the types of people that set fire to £50 notes in front of homeless people so they are hardly going to have your average persons best interests at the forefront of their mind. Not saying the opposition is any better or that there aren't decent people on the right or even on the side of the Brexit debate but to actually support a position like a football team just seems crazy when it comes to playing with millions of peoples lives.

I still can't believe we have these Fidiots raving "we've taken back control of our borders" (usually spelled "boarders")

It's been made very clear in the last week that France has pretty much full control of our borders!

But this divisive behaviour - this failure to win graciously - will backfire horribly when those parts of the U.K. that don't support the Brexit project decide that their destiny lies elsewhere

I'm always troubled with the war rhetoric from some leave voters, it isn't a game and just sows more division. If the EU vote had gone the other way, I wouldn't have seen it as remain had won and leave had lost, I would have just been glad.

The past four years and a half years have seen a large group of remainers trying every trick in the book to get the result overturned, that is a failure to lose graciously and that stokes division, it's not one way traffic.

@sally067

Boris did it! Definitely a new optimism for the New Year.

@EmmanuelleMakro What does someone like me have to look forward to? I studied Business Studies at uni and managed to get a job at a tech company in London, we've been told if there was tariffs on services then our company would look to move most of our business to our European subsidiaries. Google, Facebook, etc are based in Ireland so it's just easier to deal with EU based companies for them.

My sister works for an investment bank and was put at risk of redundancy along with hundreds others just before Christmas as losing the passporting access means they will be moving her department to Frankfurt. They have already moved half the business and most of the money there.

My best friend works for a advertising agency in Manchester, they are moving all their business to Paris and Madrid, again for tax purposes. She is being made redundant.

All of us worked studied and worked hard all our lives to get into these positions. What do we do now? There's a fair few million just like us. What does this mean for public services and redistribution of wealth across the country bearing in mind we won't earn the kind of money we have done so won't be paying higher taxes for the betterment of society and the companies we work for won't be paying vat, corporation tax, etc into the UK treasury?

We can't all become fishermen!

My DH has been made redundant from a bank as they are moving most of their operations out of the UK. He's a IT bod, so was paid an average salary. I don't think people realise what a massive blow losing passporting rights is going to be to our economy, and how many people like my DH are going to end up unemployed. He can't just go and become a trawlerman or fruit picker.

His DM is a brexiteer with no fucking clue about what leaving actually means for the country and for her son. I'm still and probably will forever be furious with her

The past four years and a half years have seen a large group of remainers trying every trick in the book to get the result overturned, that is a failure to lose graciously and that stokes division, it's not one way traffic.

Tricks? You mean using democratic tools such as parliamentary representatives voting to try to come to some sort of consensus or not let a handful of vote leave fanatics take us out without so much as a say as to what sort of Brexit people wanted?

Why were those that wanted to leave so afraid of a confirmatory vote if it was such a slam dunk? You don't think people like Dominic Cummings, Cambridge Analytica and the Russian state might have been using a few tricks or misinformation tactics themselves to get the vote in the first place? Remind me, when exactly are Turkey due to join the EU?

His DM is a brexiteer with no fucking clue about what leaving actually means for the country and for her son.

I think that's pretty much par for the course for the vast majority of Quitlings.

The ones who do understand are obviously malicious or xenophobic.