Westminstenders: Going, going, cummings

[RedToothBrush]

As expected he's fucking off and leaving everyone else to pick up the pieces in January. But it does look like he was eventually shown the door and left with a cardboard box. As he should have been months ago.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with Johnson needing an image change, like the shape shifting creep he is, to one that fits more with the incoming Biden Administration. In other words hes got some serious sucking up to do...

... Meanwhile in Brexit land we are going into yet another final week of talks.

Many expect Cummings departure to signal 'the cave in'. The Eu say we havent moved enough and the uk say the EU wants us to do all the moving... Except the EU have done lots of moving. Barnier is still looking for a groundsman to level his field to play. We have yet to work out we aren't Canada and distance is important to trade.

Of course if we don't get a deal, that Pfizer vaccine in Germany that we want, might be hit with delays and extra costs we just can't afford.

Not surprised that Clavinova has to go out when challenged on her facts.

@Peregrina

Not surprised that Clavinova has to go out when challenged on her facts.

It's a great way of having the last word ...

@Clavinova

And usuallydormant explained better than your cut n'paste as to why it will affect British people more.

Yes, she did - but I don't see why something along the lines of the working holiday visas offered to young people from Australia and New Zealand (aged 18-30?) cannot be offered to young British workers - unless EU countries want to be unreasonable.

Is the UK planning to offer anything like this to EU citizens though? Because as far as I understand, the plan is for the EU citizens is to fit into the horrible, sorry current, immigration system already in place. No special treatments for young EU workers, unless the UK is desperate (like the Roumanian to fill the border control jobs they can't fill).

So now I am wondering, why should the EU countries have special rules for britain once the UK has left the EU? Why shouldn't they be treated like any other person coming from a third country?
Genuinely puzzled as to why it would be OK for brits to jump the queue tbh.

Is the UK planning to offer anything like this to EU citizens though?

Of course not. That would pretty much make Brexit a waste of time.

So now I am wondering, why should the EU countries have special rules for britain once the UK has left the EU?

Because that was what was promised ? (Not by the EU. Just the Leave campaign. Who sadly can't be with us tonight as they were never in a position - and were never going to be in a position - to honour the cheque they wrote with our futures).

Why shouldn't they be treated like any other person coming from a third country?

Because they is British - the siren cry of unbelievable* arrogant exceptionalism that has run through Project Brexit like a dose of salts.

*To some. My DF warned us 3 lads from a very early age not to become insufferable arseholes like a lot of Brits abroad.

Good luck to those Remainers looking for jobs in Sunderland.

Tough titties to those who voted Leave...

@HannibalHayes

Good luck to those Remainers looking for jobs in Sunderland.

Tough titties to those who voted Leave...

My German ain't that good ... any chance of a summary in English, French or Italian ?

My German ain't that good ... any chance of a summary in English, French or Italian?

twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1330868969243357184?s=20

"Nissan to close Sunderland plant."

According to the leading Auto trade journal 'Automobilwoche' reporting a Nissan manager.

"Nissan plans to close its Sunderland plant....A decision has been made and it’s not favourable for the UK".

"Nissan to close Sunderland plant."

I would caution that we don't know whether this is true yet, and from my quick glance I didn't see a timescale mentioned. So even if it is true, any timescale longer than 0.0001 nanoseconds post-referendum/exit-day/transition/adjustment/any-suitable-point (or 0.0001 nanoseconds pre-referendum/exit-day/transition/adjustment/any-suitable-point will be declared as "Aha, but it's not because of Brexit!"

Well, they all knew what they were voting for. Didn't they?
My German is still up to the job, fortunately.

The visa program that is open to Australian and NZ'ers would not work for resort work - as what the uk now offers has been pared back to the point that you can't work for a "season" as such. These visas are now very restrictive- to the point that an OE from NZ abs Aust is now not seen as a right if passage - because it is unaffordable.
Several of my friends came up here and worked in schools as teachers abs traveled in the holidays - now not possible as I understand it.
Uk immigration policy is not as "soft" as some have envisaged it.....

I know it was discussed that australia wanted to go back to the old system as part of a trade deal...

Outgoing Erasmus+ students studying at universities based in the UK are counted as UK students regardless of nationality:

University of Sheffield;
"Does my nationality affect whether I am eligible for the Erasmus+ grant?"
"A student’s eligibility for the grant is dependant on the country the sending institution is in, rather than an individual’s nationality."

www.sheffield.ac.uk/globalopps/erasmus-brexit

University of Glasgow;
"I'm not an EU/EEA/Swiss national. Can I still participate in an Erasmus study or work mobility?"

"Yes. All students, regardless of their nationality, are eligible to participate in this programme. As long as you are registered and enrolled in a valid degree programme at the University of Glasgow, you are eligible to receive the grant. Students from outside the EEA/EU or Switzerland will need to research their own visa requirements, both for here and your host institution."

www.gla.ac.uk/myglasgow/students/goabroad/erasmuseuropeanstudy/frequentlyaskedquestions/

V interesting info, Clavinova, which is another good reason for UK students to study abroad. As it stands, my DC, who will need to spend a year abroad, stands to lose a hell of a lot of money (by way of debt) through not being able to go under the Erasmus scheme, which supports students from low income families.
I'll miss them, though. Would never occur to them to study abroad if not for Brexit, and may well lead to emigration. It's the bright, enterprising young people that we're losing.

If the UK does not have a trade deal or reciprocal agreement wit the EU
British kids WILL NOT be eligible for
ANYTHING in the EU
as that is what taking back control was all about

39 days to go
Check ~ Change ~ Go
but we have no idea where or how

What Clavinova posted seemed to say that if you are enrolled at a university which takes part in the Erasums scheme - eg a Dutch university - you qualify for Erasmus regardless of what nationality you are?

Greektome
May I ask if your dc is a dual national/bilingual?

Clav the vast majority of uk based students who participated in Erasmus are home students. While an EU student studying in a British uni will be regarded as a Uk student, very few such are on year abroad courses - most on year abroad programmes are British.

Anecdotally very few are able to go abroad this year due to covid, and sadly will not be able to take part next year.

titchy
Clav the vast majority of uk based students who participated in Erasmus are home students.

The majority perhaps, but I have some figures from a previous post: 26% of students taking part from UK universities in 2014/15 were in fact non-British students. Also, there was an element of 'double counting' (1,000 students) - they counted the number of placements, not the number of students taking part - some students had more than one placement in the same year.

@Clavinova

titchy Clav the vast majority of uk based students who participated in Erasmus are home students.

The majority perhaps, but I have some figures from a previous post: 26% of students taking part from UK universities in 2014/15 were in fact non-British students. Also, there was an element of 'double counting' (1,000 students) - they counted the number of placements, not the number of students taking part - some students had more than one placement in the same year.

So what? its a loss and for what gain? none as far as i can see.

Brexit was supposed to give us "benefits" and after 4 years, we have "26% of UK students weren't UK students"

Does it not occur to you that these 26% will be tempted to go elsewhere that does allow them overseas study?

Not dual national. Sadly. Who wants to be solely British now? What's your point?

Nissan to close Sunderland plant and there I was going to comment on how it was a shame Clav had gone out so was unable to provide us with a news cutting on how Nissan was also closing a factory somewhere in the world, therefore was fine to close in the UK, but she's back.

I'm trying to figure if Clav is saying that because perhaps a few actual non Brits (how dare they) participate as part of the UKs Erasmus+ programme, when they're enrolled in a British university, it's fine to jettison the UKs participation? Leaving fewer opportunities for our kids to experience life in Europe because, you know, they may meet a non homeless EU person and like them?

At the university where I've worked for twenty years, the vast majority of our students going on Erasmus have been British. It's been an utterly fantastic programme and enriched those young people's lives. It'll be tragic if it goes.

Psst Clav give it a bit of a rest. Honestly, you do not have to be the one woman Johnson groupie all the time.

If it wasn't for the amount of work she puts in, I'd think she was Johnson

@Jason118

If it wasn't for the amount of work she puts in, I'd think she was Johnson

If it weren’t for the fact that her posts are generally coherent (though in real terms, content-free), I would too.

I don't see why something along the lines of the working holiday visas offered to young people from Australia and New Zealand (aged 18-30?) cannot be offered to young British workers - unless EU countries want to be unreasonable.

Clavinova
Let's say the EU can accommodate a certain number of third party country youths aged 18-30 - for the sake of argument we can set this number at 1000 p.a. For many years, 1000 Aussies and Kiwis have engaged in a rite of passage of sorts each year, hiking around Europe, working here and there, having the time of their lives. All of a sudden, another third party country rocks up and wants to be included in this scheme.
Should the scheme limits be expanded to accommodate them?
Should the Aussie and Kiwi numbers be reduced in order to accommodate the newcomers?

Bear in mind that the newcomers have an entire Commonwealth to romp around in between the ages of 18 and 30... The Commonwealth has the disadvantage of including some pretty far flung places, but then arises the question of why the UK doesn't have close economic, political and social ties with its closest neighbours, close enough to enable friction-free travel and work for anyone from either place.

Then you remember that that was actually possible back in the day, but the Brits in their wisdom voted to end all of it. At this point the word 'unreasonable' quoted up there starts to look like a fundamental misunderstanding of how things work.

I would love to know from a Brexiter (Clavinova, for instance) how hiring forriners to work at rock bottom rates in European ski chalets is ok when it comes to young Brits, but the hiring of forrin labour in the UK is a sign that the UK needs to leave the EU because it causes unemployment and other undesirable knock on effects in the UK.

Where is the clarification that Nissan is closing ? I thought facts were important on this thread. Not everyone in Sunderland voted Leave, and those gloating on here and on social media that people in a deprived area may lose their jobs is not a good look.