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Brexit

Westminstenders: What the winds bring

987 replies

RedToothBrush · 27/10/2020 06:48

The next few weeks are crucial. Eu talks, covid handling, the US election and any other unexpected events (its nearly November, lets face it will probably be the weather).

It feels a little like the car crash in slow motion is about to hit the wall of reality. I guess that just means all there is left to do is to brace for impact.

OP posts:
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ListeningQuietly · 27/10/2020 15:44

Meuniere
Oh I agree with you about the "English Exceptionalism"
It pisses me right off the number of non mask wearers in the shop.

If you are too high risk to wear a mask while wearing your amazon sunflower lanyard, bugger off back home and do some exercise
its the same miserable unwell OAPs there every day

I'd agree with the circuit breaker lockdowns
IF
I thought there was any real evidence that the circuit was being analysed and trains of transmission identified
but they are not

the Westminster bubble are wringing their hands
while pouring a big G&T in their spacious homes in low risk areas

lots of them genuinely do not realise that the lovely little deli will be devoid of stock after December because they do not understand their supply chain.

We have utter incompetents in office
supported by awfully nice folks who have no idea what life is like outside the North Circular
Angry Sad

DGRossetti · 27/10/2020 15:46

We have utter incompetents in office supported by awfully nice folks who have no idea what life is like outside the North Circular

The recent thread from people who didn't realise they live in London was an eye-opener.

SabrinaThwaite · 27/10/2020 15:55

On the subject of ECMT permits .,,

The UK has a base limit of 102 annual permits, which can be converted into a higher number of permits if their use is restricted to EURO VI vehicles or if they are converted into monthly permits. A permit is allocated specifically to a company and can’t be transferred to another company. Each permit can be used only by one vehicle at a time. It can be used by different vehicles successively as there is no mention of registration number.

business.senedd.wales/documents/s79575/Road%20haulage%20permits%20post-Brexit%20The%20Freight%20Transport%20Association.pdf

102 annual (or 1224 monthly) permits aren’t going to go very far?

DGRossetti · 27/10/2020 16:03

@SabrinaThwaite

On the subject of ECMT permits .,,

The UK has a base limit of 102 annual permits, which can be converted into a higher number of permits if their use is restricted to EURO VI vehicles or if they are converted into monthly permits. A permit is allocated specifically to a company and can’t be transferred to another company. Each permit can be used only by one vehicle at a time. It can be used by different vehicles successively as there is no mention of registration number.

business.senedd.wales/documents/s79575/Road%20haulage%20permits%20post-Brexit%20The%20Freight%20Transport%20Association.pdf

102 annual (or 1224 monthly) permits aren’t going to go very far?

What happens if a company goes bust ?

Can companies buy and sell their permits ?

Are we going to see a rerun of Billingsgate, where the UK government sells the UK permits to EU hauliers instead of UK hauliers ?

Confused ? You will be after this weeks episode of "Brexit".

SabrinaThwaite · 27/10/2020 16:10

That Senedd briefing states that EU hauliers would need a licence from its own country’s (equally limited) allocation to bring goods into the UK.

This would only cover 2% to 5% of transport needs.

Also, in the run up to the March 29th deadline (which seems like a long time ago now) 11,000 HGV operators applied with just 1,000 successful applications.

FishesaPlenty · 27/10/2020 16:13

Can companies buy and sell their permits ?

No

What happens if a company goes bust ?

The company doesn't exist anymore and can't operate any trucks anyway.

FishesaPlenty · 27/10/2020 16:16

That Senedd briefing states that EU hauliers would need a licence from its own country’s (equally limited) allocation to bring goods into the UK.

In theory yes, and unsurprisingly most road freight from the EU arrives on EU trucks, not UK trucks.

It would be for us to decide whether we enforce that though, and even this bunch of dickheads wouldn't do that.

ListeningQuietly · 27/10/2020 16:16

Oooh, Soap. I LOVED the programme

DGRossetti · 27/10/2020 16:19

What happens if a company goes bust ? The company doesn't exist anymore and can't operate any trucks anyway.

I think I worked that out myself. (Although it took a while). However I am still stuck as to what happens to any permits they may have been allocated. Can they be reused ? Or are they simply taken out of circulation like a really high stakes game of musical chairs ? Maybe I should have rephrased my question: "What happens to the permits of a company that goes bust ?". Especially since there might be some Tory MPs lurking who need the Janet and John approach to facts.

DGRossetti · 27/10/2020 16:20

@ListeningQuietly

Oooh, Soap. I LOVED the programme
Up there with "Agony" for ground breaking depictions of gay males. Maybe not cliche-free. But certainly not the norm either.
pussycatinboots · 27/10/2020 16:33

even this bunch of dickheads wouldn't do that

really? they probably don't even know it's going to happen.

FishesaPlenty · 27/10/2020 16:42

What happens to the permits of a company that goes bust ?

In theory they're returned to the pool and can be re-issued to another haulier for use for the remainder of that year. That would rely on DVSA being aware that they'd gone bust of course - there's no duty for anyone to tell them as far as I know. The permit would expire at the end of the year anyway.

ICouldHaveCheckedFirst · 27/10/2020 17:01

DGR - "I'm idly wondering how many systems are so old, nobody knows how to modify them anymore ?"

You're probably aware that this was already the case back in the late 90s, affecting code written in the late 70s. I can't imagine the situation has improved since then (speaking as a former software dev and process improver) .
To be effective, software needs to be based on sound business processes. I have seen nothing to reassure me on that front as far as post-transition logistics is concerned.

FishesaPlenty · 27/10/2020 17:15

there's no duty for anyone to tell them as far as I know

In relation to the ECMT permit that is.

Jason118 · 27/10/2020 17:24

Well, at least we've plenty of overalls.

Westminstenders: What the winds bring
pussycatinboots · 27/10/2020 17:29

Jason I could do with a pair for when we decorate the stairs...

DGRossetti · 27/10/2020 17:32

I might need to be fitted for a tinfoil hat Grin

Just gone to sign the 952,000 and counting Rashford petition, and Zoho mail starts having problems, meaning I can't verify my signature.

Interesting ...

RedToothBrush · 27/10/2020 17:49

Sarah O'Connor @sarahoconnor
Shame on me, given my job, but only since the pandemic have I really started to understand how threadbare the UK's safety net has become. Take statutory sick pay. The UK is now at the very bottom of all OECD countries. Even Trump's America is doing more.

Some examples of other countries, versus the UK

There's a hard-headed reason to raise sick pay: that otherwise some people won't isolate because they can't afford to (the people reliant only on SSP are disproportionately in jobs that can't be done from home.) Skimping is a false economy.

But there's also a point of principle, isn't there? Brits are proud of the idea behind the NHS, that no-one in our country should face a financial hit because they had the bad luck to get ill. But actually, with sick pay like this, that's just not true in 21st century Britain.

This is what we have become.

Westminstenders: What the winds bring
Westminstenders: What the winds bring
Westminstenders: What the winds bring
OP posts:
DGRossetti · 27/10/2020 17:55

Shame on me, given my job, but only since the pandemic have I really started to understand how threadbare the UK's safety net has become. Take statutory sick pay. The UK is now at the very bottom of all OECD countries. Even Trump's America is doing more.

But that's by design. It's not as if it happened when no one was looking.

This is what people voted for and what they got.

Chersfrozenface · 27/10/2020 18:11

I'm loving the headline on the BBC website (yes, the BBC):
"Red tape is back post-Brexit, but will it be ready?"
www.bbc.com/news/business-54709209

Remind me again, wasn't leaving the EU going to rid of all that pesky red tape, or have I misremembered?

Yet there is the phrase on the main-est of main stream media.

Emilyontmoor · 27/10/2020 18:24

OK Did someone mention China? Grin

No you cannot make any assumptions about 1. What is actually happening in China or 2. whether it would work here, except in very specific instances.

If you want some really good lessons in how to control the virus look at Taiwan who were boarding planes from Wuhan and testing passengers in mid December and swung their pandemic response, a limited lockdown but with effective test trace and quarantine, into action at the end of December and whose figures on Coronavirus cases and deaths (7 in a population of 51m) you can believe. Equally Korea who have succeeded in controlling the virus even whilst battling a centuries old culture of embracing millennial movements now manifested in Christian Evangelical cults churches who insist on their right to mass gatherings. Or Hong Kong opened up again after controlling a third wave, much of it originating in the UK. The Hong Kong man who was reinfected actually first caught it in Hong Kong and then was almost certainly infected on a trip to London. Or even Vietnam. All mounted a response rooted in local public test, trace and quarantine resources.

Kashgar, the main city in mainly Muslim Xinjiang is over 4000kms from mainly Han Wuhan, and is effectively a continuation culturally and ethnically of the other Central Asian (Silk Road) Muslim states. It is however the centre of a new outbreak, though it is highly unlikely that the Chinese are telling the whole story of the epidemiology. Their priority is to portray themselves as confucian rulers in the tradition of the Sage Emperors taking care of their people in the time of pandemic, mainly the Han people who they are flooding into minority areas, nowhere more than Xinjiang where they are trying to eradicate a Muslim Culture in order to assert a Han one. LQ is quite right, if it is in Kashgar, it is highly likely it is spreading in the concentration reeducation camps but Muslim lives do not matter as far as Xi is concerned.

The government portrayed the last outbreak in Qingdao (1000kms in the other direction from Wuhan) as originating with people travelling from overseas. It however is a seaside resort on whose beaches people travelled from all over the country to celebrate the Autumn Moon festival during Golden week in October. Unlikely to be a coincidence.

The webchat coming out of Wuhan's hospitals in November and December was already talking about a new SARs type virus and clearly Taiwan picked up on that and the cases they were identifying enough to mobilise a major response. However Xi was busy with Trump and it wasn't until mid January that anyone dared raise their head above the parapet and suggest they had a huge problem. The Wuhan authorities cleaned up the wet market and hoped to deal with it by suppressing the news, not the virus, delaying an effective response by weeks. Not exactly evidence of effective governance anymore than our shower. Testing millions of people may or may not be a sign of an effective control but it is good PR and a crowd pleaser......

As an aside much is made of Asian culture being conformist and more susceptible to control as a reason why it would not work here. However as much as anything I think the effectiveness of the response in Confucian societies lies in the fact that their Civil Servants have been the esteemed meritocratic elite for centuries, as opposed to an entitled hereditary elite who look down on civil servants, trade and anybody who is not one of them.

ICouldHaveCheckedFirst · 27/10/2020 18:27

Cher I particularly like the suggestion in the comments that red tape will be renamed blue tape.

ListeningQuietly · 27/10/2020 18:41

Emily
Your analysis is much more detailed than mine
but yes
Taiwan deserve shit loads of credit that China will not allow them to get Hmm

colouringindoors · 27/10/2020 18:45

Bracing. Thanks as always Red for your epic commitment to these threads. A rare place of reason and sanity in an increasingly chaotic world.

colouringindoors · 27/10/2020 19:00

Emily really interesting - thanks