Westminstenders: Prepare for what we said would never happen

[RedToothBrush]

I think that there may be a run on tinned tomatoes and pasta coming. Pizza will no longer have mozzarella in 2021.

On the plus side turnips are in season.

Hopefully this unfair system will change one day.

Only if the Tories are defeated, and Labour as probably the largest party has the gumption to insist on electoral reform - as happened in New Zealand.

@Peregrina

Hopefully this unfair system will change one day.

Only if the Tories are defeated, and Labour as probably the largest party has the gumption to insist on electoral reform - as happened in New Zealand.

Nah, not really. We've had non Tory governments before - the system survived.

My late DM was for electoral reform in the 1950s.

I'm afraid the older I get the more I realise it's the Colston solution, or nowt. I would have no interest whatsoever in debating with anyone who thought "the proper channels" would have done anything other than leave that statue there.

Re the Colston statue I heard that really it was the Council which pulled it down under the cover of the protest, after dithering and dithering. I don't know how true this was.

Absolutely fine with that approach DGR provided, of course, that you are equally happy to see statues removed/monuments desecrated for people/movements who you agree with?

Personally I'd go for no statue/monument desecration anywhere and locking up the people who do it, but that's just me.

They could happily get rid of a vast number of statues, of mostly self-important men, who are long forgotten now.

Hmm, when they took railings to melt down during the war, (waste of time, wrong sort of iron) Why didn't they remove a good few statues?

‘They could happily get rid of a vast number of statues, of mostly self-important men, who are long forgotten now.‘

♥️ this!

We (ok, not "we" - previous owners of our house ) lost the lovely ornate cast iron railings along the front wall and the matching gate, as did all the houses in the area, to the war effort. It's galling to know that they're now sitting at the bottom of a sea loch

Oh, I have just read that Johnson confirms that £60 million will go to tier 3 boroughs in Greater Manchester. I haven't read the details though - I dare say there will be a weaseling out of it.

@LouiseCollins28

Absolutely fine with that approach DGR provided, of course, that you are equally happy to see statues removed/monuments desecrated for people/movements who you agree with?

Personally I'd go for no statue/monument desecration anywhere and locking up the people who do it, but that's just me.

You missed the gist of what I was saying. Probably on purpose to distract from the import of noting that violent revolution seems to be the only tried and tested technique to dislodge centuries of vested interests.

And if we are swapping squirrels, with specific reference to the Colston statue (and it was hard not to have a brief wonder at the world when the "Enslaved" documentary was behind the times in Bristol) then I would rather it was in a museum surrounded with a story of it's journey, rather than on a fucking plinth as if the guy was some sort of fucking hero.

Much like the massive Nazi flag that was captured by the Gloucester regiment and is now on display in their excellent regimental museum is. I guess these days, there would be a movement to fly the fucking thing outside on a pole

That's interesting @Peregrina about New Zealand.
If they can do it there, they can do it here...

Admittedly, I think we will have to go through a lot more pain before the main parties will consider it.

A Pleased PMK that the gyms have re opened in Liverpool.
Lesson to politicians - to not pick statistics battles with BodyBuilders - some of them are rather good at that stuff.

Tier 3 was meaning less before
but at least now its healthy meaningless

Lesson to politicians - to not pick statistics battles with BodyBuilders - some of them are rather good at that stuff.

Education is important, lifting heavy weights isn’t always importanter

Guess I did miss the underlying point there DGR fair enough. Your point about "the system" of entrenched interests surviving is a more interesting one. Violent revolution as the only way to remove entrenched interests? You may have a point there too!

The opportunity to do this wholesale has already been lost IMO, back following the 2008 financial crash. Wouldn't even have needed to be violent necessarily either.

It might be said that a similar opportunity exists now (I'd dispute that, thinking being that stopping speculative activity on the part of the banks was the most important step IMO and in COVID land there is more scope for that, not less)

The odd thing is, even when opportunities exist to disempower those entrenched interests on a smaller level, such as exist now in transport and the care sectors to name but 2 examples, people line up behind those wishing to prop up the existing interests.

The opportunity to do this wholesale has already been lost IMO, back following the 2008 financial crash. Wouldn't even have needed to be violent necessarily either.

It was lost when Cromwell and Cronies fucked up the commonwealth and Charles II was the best answer to "What the fuck do we do now ?"

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a violent person and would not support a violent revolution. But it's worth asking any passing American if they think they would be where they are today if they had "gone through the proper channels" ? The answer to which should cause even the most die hard Americanophile to take pause and remember who they are, and who we are. British tyranny is still a deep meme in the US psyche. And the fact they overthrew it.

Top down power oppressing without public accountability.

I agree with you there @RedToothBrush.

And the bullying part of the 'negociation' with GM, except that, seeing the negative reaction of the public, they decided to backdown. r at least to look like they are backing down.

The posturing is so similar than the one with the EU. I'm wondering if they will backtrack there too, just like they have done with GM (except that with the EU, there will much less leeway to actually bactrack on the agreement)

The odd thing is, even when opportunities exist to disempower those entrenched interests on a smaller level, such as exist now in transport and the care sectors to name but 2 examples, people line up behind those wishing to prop up the existing interests.

Hold onto nurse for fear of finding something worse.

depressingly, despite the poverty and eugenics of it all, it seems generally England is in that sweet spot of "not good enough to be good" and "not bad enough to storm the Bastille". Which has been the end goal of any and all governments and monarchs before them. It certainly seems to have been the British Way when it came to disposing of former colonies. With the fact that Rhodesia decided to play it differently (and look what happened to them) being proof.

That said, we have no idea how quickly the current circumstances will feed into our childrens nihilism. If they can't be enticed or seduced by the propsect of a better tomorrow, then they won't care for today. The mob may come for me, but who will come for you ?

I am very interested you refer only to "England" here DGR? I am equally interested to learn who you think has been practicing eugenics, and upon whom?

@LouiseCollins28

I am very interested you refer only to "England" here DGR? I am equally interested to learn who you think has been practicing eugenics, and upon whom?

Thanks to the likes of Farage and chums, and being made painfully aware of how poor my knowledge of Wales, Ireland and Scotland is, I try to be sensitive not to say "British" as a lazy way of saying "English". Maybe 40 years ago I wouldn't have been aware, but that's progress for you.

As for Eugenics ... well if you're hoping to find a "department for Eugenics" somewhere off Whitehall, you might be disappointed. But if you look at the effects of successive policies from all parties, you'd have to conclude that some element of social engineering has been going on. And while there may have been public outrage at the principles of Eugenics back in the day (bearing in mind the cheerleaders for it) I suspect all that did was teach proponents to rebrand it and carry on.

Much as I suspect there was never any deviation from the "herd immunity" theory of dealing with Covid back in March. Once it was clear you couldn't call it that, it had to be introduced by stealth. Unless you have any better explanations for how apparently incompetent the government has been ?

As soon as DW realised she was pregnant, the first GP she saw assumed she was arranging an abortion as "Disabled people shouldn't have babies". So don't tell me there isn't an appetite for eugenics, as long as it can be made to sound light and fun.

I think you've missed my point...

This situation....'it seems generally England is in that sweet spot of "not good enough to be good" and "not bad enough to storm the Bastille"' applies only to England? Maybe you're right but I am surprised you wouldn't apply a similar description UK wide.

@ListeningQuietly

A Pleased PMK that the gyms have re opened in Liverpool. Lesson to politicians - to not pick statistics battles with BodyBuilders - some of them are rather good at that stuff.

Tier 3 was meaning less before
but at least now its healthy meaningless

...... My gym - privately owned - installed new air con and has an App that issues daily updates to us on air quality para,eters They keep humidity high, ~50% which is well into the recommended range for Covid of 40%+

Ventilation, high ceiling - we have 5.4 m - plenty of floor space for machines, limited class numbers, frequent cleaning, sanitiser everywhere ...
These are all measures that can enable gyms to stay open safely and enable members to stay fit more easily, improving their prospects for surviving Covid plus the next decades

I've been going happily since they reopened on 16 May, no cases here I am aware of < knocks wood hard >
Classes have to be booked, but the best ones are full by 12:10 am, same as before !

My personal precautions, now my area has hit > 50 / 100,000:

• Cut down on classes to the 5 ones I really like, plus 1-2 quiet weekly sessions on my own
• Shower at home & no sauna - that's been since the reopening
• No dawdling & nattering at the coffee shop - noone else is recently, anyway

@LouiseCollins28

I think you've missed my point...

This situation....'it seems generally England is in that sweet spot of "not good enough to be good" and "not bad enough to storm the Bastille"' applies only to England? Maybe you're right but I am surprised you wouldn't apply a similar description UK wide.

I was being very careful there to only include England - where I live and where I'm from. I'm not going to speak for other nations. You can, if you feel you have the right. But I think that's why we have Scotlands independence movement breaking all records, and the very real possibility of NI uniting with the Republic.

Fair enough then. Maybe I need to be more careful myself on this.

@LouiseCollins28

Fair enough then. Maybe I need to be more careful myself on this.

And if you are anything like me feel a terrible sadness as you do. Because we are losing something irreplaceable.

Mind you, you could say the same of leaving the EU. Maybe it's the price the UK is going to eventually pay for Brexit - forget fishes.

So labour's attempt for a fair economic package for tier 3 has been defeated by a majority of 79. So effectively Tory MPs have voted not to have a fair economic package for their businesses and workers.

Keeping gyms open at least keeps hordes of steroid -fuelled body builders off the streets, where they might cause trouble. Disclaimer: I have friends who fall into this category and they are lovely people. But unhappy when deprived of gym sessions.