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Brexit

Westminstenders: Pah International Law. Who needs it?

978 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/09/2020 18:09

I mean its not as if trade deals and human rights are relevant is it?

(sorry eating my dinner so must be brief)

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BigChocFrenzy · 13/09/2020 20:10

I remember that sordid business without wiki

I also remember years before, when he was just a journalist that he wrote about the struggles of an RAF widow whom he was (admirably) trying to help
and he wrote that he didn't know how she kept going because he struggled to cope with any difficulty in his life, even torn trousers - probably truthful for once; he's not used to handling even ordinary problems

namechange34 · 13/09/2020 20:56

Bit of an aside on Tony Abbott from an Aussie in London...his trip to the UK has gone down like a cup of cold sick in Aus. If you haven't been following, citizens rights in the country have been massively curtailed. International travel and even interstate travel is a pipe dream for most Australians right now. My brother is a 30 min flight from my parents but he hasn't seen them since March due to state borders being closed. There are tens of thousands of Australians currently abroad which are not able to return to their home country due to quotas imposed by the Australian government, the London consulate have staff now based at Heathrow to assist stranded citizens. Communities that live along state borders are in dire straits. It is EXTREMELY bad optics that with so many families torn apart, Tony Abbott gained an exemption to travel to the UK.

DGRossetti · 13/09/2020 21:03

@namechange34

Bit of an aside on Tony Abbott from an Aussie in London...his trip to the UK has gone down like a cup of cold sick in Aus. If you haven't been following, citizens rights in the country have been massively curtailed. International travel and even interstate travel is a pipe dream for most Australians right now. My brother is a 30 min flight from my parents but he hasn't seen them since March due to state borders being closed. There are tens of thousands of Australians currently abroad which are not able to return to their home country due to quotas imposed by the Australian government, the London consulate have staff now based at Heathrow to assist stranded citizens. Communities that live along state borders are in dire straits. It is EXTREMELY bad optics that with so many families torn apart, Tony Abbott gained an exemption to travel to the UK.
So clearly destined for a peerage then ... except

I note with interest Wiki says:

Citizenship Australian
British (1957–1993)

If he is no longer a British Citizen, presumably he is Australian ? And thus prevented from accepting an honour. Although I have a memory that it's a convention that the UK doesn't offer peerages to Australians. ? So he might be the first.

Shame we can't honour Canadians. Neil Young, Joni Mitchell and William Shatner should all be gonged ...

namechange34 · 13/09/2020 21:06

@DGRossetti he could be citizens of both countries, neither insist on renouncing citizenship. Also he is British by birth not descent, which makes a small but distinguishable difference, which really became apparent when Brexit meant I had to seek British citizenship for my daughters (DH is French...)

namechange34 · 13/09/2020 21:09

Actually come to think of it, I'm pretty sure you can't be an MP in Australia and hold any other citizenship, so TA may have given up the UK citizenship in order to pursue politics

DGRossetti · 13/09/2020 21:14

@namechange34

Actually come to think of it, I'm pretty sure you can't be an MP in Australia and hold any other citizenship, so TA may have given up the UK citizenship in order to pursue politics
Would explain the Wiki note then - he became an MP in 93 ?

Good. No gong for him. Boo hoo.

I have no problem with honours per se. But peerages can fuck right off.

AuldAlliance · 13/09/2020 21:22

You are naïvely presuming that those rules about peerages and nationality can't be ridden over roughshod in a limited and precise way.

Gotta get with the new reality...

FatCatThinCat · 13/09/2020 21:25

So to clarify and mark my place, the UK is starting a trade war with EU and destroying its international reputation to avoid state aid requirements that it's already committed to in another international treaty? What's the fucking point?

FatCatThinCat · 13/09/2020 21:27

Will the Japanese parliament now refuse to ratify that trade deal seeing as the UK has announced it would rather break the law than comply with rules on state aid?

Darker · 13/09/2020 22:02

@FatCatThinCat

Will the Japanese parliament now refuse to ratify that trade deal seeing as the UK has announced it would rather break the law than comply with rules on state aid?
I hope so. Then the Brexiteers might cop on that its about a lot more than the EU.
yolio · 13/09/2020 22:10

The Irish Minister for Foreign Affairs, Simon Coveney was quite tetchy on Andrew Marr's show earlier, probably recorded but whatever. But who could blame him really.

It is a disgrace the way this is being handled in my humble opinion.

www.thejournal.ie/simon-coveney-2-5203561-Sep2020/

KenDodd · 13/09/2020 22:14

Re, state aid, I wonder if Teresa May's meeting with Nissan right after the referendum are relevant here?

TokyoSushi · 13/09/2020 22:17

PMK

ICouldHaveCheckedFirst · 13/09/2020 22:29

Auld that thought occurred to me too. How liberating not to be bound by any rules, laws, treaties that we don't like... What could possibly go wrong?

SwedishEdith · 13/09/2020 22:36

@namechange34

Actually come to think of it, I'm pretty sure you can't be an MP in Australia and hold any other citizenship, so TA may have given up the UK citizenship in order to pursue politics
This is interesting - from 2017 - on his "renunciation". You definitely can't be an Australian MP and be a dual citizen, apparently.

independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/tony-abbotts-letter,10547

quiteathome · 13/09/2020 22:43

Pmk

SunnyUplandsOhNoTurnipSoup · 13/09/2020 22:48

Thanks for all your posts and this thread Red. An oasis of reason and information.

I was thinking about the catalogue of measures and methods that Johnson has presided over since becoming PM. I found the website below with a top 10 tactics used by would be authoritarians. While not suggesting the current Government is on a par with Turkey or China, I can think of examples used by the current UK government - most recently the Internal Markets Bill but also recategorising Extinction Rebellion, abolition of the Electoral Commission, contracts to private companies under cover of emergency powers, limiting media access, commitments to limit the role of the judiciary, populism / blaming others - migrants, the EU..., Use of data (e.g original track and trace app), the Planning White Paper claiming an increase in democracy but proposing the removal of the right to comment on planning applications. The list goes on.

"Democracy is in trouble, despite popular uprisings. Scholars say countries across the globe are experiencing a rise in autocratic rule, with declines in democratic ideals and practice. Autocratic rule – also known as authoritarianism – is when one leader or political party exercises complete power to govern a country and its people.

Definitions of democracy vary. All citizens in a democracy have the ability to vote in elections, which should be free and fair. Independent media, freedom of speech and assembly and the rule of law feature in most contemporary perceptions of democracy.

In the old days, autocrats often came to or retained power through military coups and violent crackdowns. Now the shift from democracy to autocracy is slower and less obvious.

While control over security forces remains essential in the autocratic playbook, overt strong-arm tactics aren’t".

The author, Shelley Inglis, spent more than 15 years with the UN, where she advised governments and democracy advocates on how to strengthen the rule of law, human rights and democratic governance.

"I’ve learned that today’s leaders with authoritarian tendencies aren’t just interested in using brute force to rise to power. They are smarter, more resilient and can adjust their methods to take account of new developments, like modern technologies and a globalized economy.

Here are some of the newest tactics used by would-be authoritarians:

  1. Extend executive power
The mainstay of today’s authoritarianism is strengthening your power while simultaneously weakening government institutions, such as parliaments and judiciaries, that provide checks and balances. The key is to use legal means that ultimately give democratic legitimacy to the power grab.
  1. Repress dissent and citizen efforts to hold government accountable
Restrictions on funding and other bureaucratic limitations silence the ability of the people to hold accountable those in power... Democracies have also jumped on this bandwagon. Limitations on permits for public protest, detention of protesters and excessive use of force to break up demonstrations are frequently used tools.
  1. Capture elite support and, when needed, demonize them too
Economic growth and prosperity are critical to retaining elite or oligarchical support for autocratic leaders. Whether through state-owned businesses, media conglomerates or more sophisticated connections between governments and free-market corporations, money and politics, translated into government favors for the rich, can be a toxic mix for democracy...
  1. Appeal to populism and nationalism
Most would-be autocratic leaders today exploit existing tensions within complex societies in order to solidify their support. In many places, fears of migrants and refugees have fueled resurgent nationalism, driving policies like U.K.‘s Brexit... Blaming external forces for a country’s problems.. is also common...
  1. Control information at home; misinform abroad
While propaganda and state-owned media is not new, control of modern technology and information has become a key battleground...
  1. Cripple the opposition
Damaging the opposition parties, while not completely destroying them, is now essential. Infiltrating parties, co-opting members and using pure scare tactics are some possible actions in the autocrat’s playbook. This serves the purpose of retaining a target for pseudo-political competition while also stymieing the potential for new, more democratic forces to gain traction.
  1. Covert election manipulation
Mostly gone are the days of vote-rigging and vote-buying as a path to power. Would-be autocrats have found cleverer ways to tilt the playing field in their favor. These new tactics include hampering media access, gerrymandering, changing election and voter eligibility rules and placing allies on electoral commissions.
  1. Play the emergency card
Some autocratic leaders continue to use traditional strong-arm tactics, like declaring states of emergency, to enable further repression. Since 2001, using the threat of terrorism or organized crime has played well for furthering autocratic rule.
  1. Extend your model and influence
Today’s autocratic rulers are not keeping to themselves.
  1. Learn and share Characterized as “autocratic learning” by scholars, national authorities... are developing and exchanging models for containing threats of social movements and the so-called “color revolutions.” International meetings and intergovernmental clubs can provide a platform for exchange..."

"...strengthening democracy across the globe will prove impossible if even the most established democracies today fall prey to the tactics of would-be autocrats".

Shelley Inglis Executive Director, University of Dayton Human Rights Center, University of Dayton

theconversation.com/so-you-want-to-be-an-autocrat-heres-the-10-point-checklist-125908

JamieLeeCurtains · 13/09/2020 22:52

Back to my 'could it be treason?' musings ...

Ministers do things on behalf of Her Majesty, and deliberately deceiving her on this scale is surely unprecedented?

Here's just one cutting today from the Times, from Cox

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/geoffrey-cox-honour-rests-on-keeping-our-word-qx36n6hwk

Sostenueto · 13/09/2020 22:52

Will the Japanese parliament now refuse to ratify that trade deal seeing as the UK has announced it would rather break the law than comply with rules on state aid?

This....

BigChocFrenzy · 13/09/2020 23:07

What the actual FUCK !

FT: Japan trade deal commits UK to stricter state aid curbs than in EU talks 🤦🏻‍♀️

https://www.ft.com/content/edb7d155-56b4-4065-9f83-31b2247fa178

The UK’s new trade deal with Japan commits it to tougher restrictions on state aid than the ones it is currently offering the EU in the Brexit talks, potentially undermining its negotiating position with Brussels.

In the bilateral UK-Japan agreement announced in principle on Friday,
London and Tokyo have agreed to replicate the restrictions on subsidies in the EU-Japan deal that went into effect last year

That agreement prohibits the governments from indefinitely guaranteeing the debts of struggling companies or providing an open-ended bailout without a clear restructuring plan in place.

By contrast, the UK has repeatedly told the EU that it must have total freedom over state aid after the end of the Brexit transition period with complete autonomy over future subsidy decisions, subject to WTO rules.

The so-called level-playing-field issues have become the main sticking point in the EU-UK negotiations,
with London resisting Brussels’s demands for it to remain within the tough EU state aid regime.
...
However, the contradiction between the two positions has created consternation within the UK government. 😳

A person familiar with internal Whitehall deliberations said that
the UK’s chief Brexit negotiator David Frost had raised concerns that Liz Truss, international trade secretary, had given more away to Japan on level playing field issues than was being offered to Brussels.

< Look out Japan ! The UK govt will be reneging on this before you can stay "state aid for Stilton" >

DrBlackbird · 13/09/2020 23:24

Shame we can't honour Canadians. Neil Young, Joni Mitchell and William Shatner should all be gonged ...

Definitely agree on Neil and Joni DGR, but we may have to politely disagree on William. Let's give a posthumous one to Leonard Cohen instead 😁

DrBlackbird · 13/09/2020 23:38

When all is so bleak, here are a few temporarily heartening news items:

  1. Attempts by Belarus’s president, Alexander Lukashenko, to crush popular protests against him failed on Sunday when more than 100,000 people marched on his residence in the capital, Minsk, with other demonstrations across the country. There was no sign that the anti-Lukashenko movement is declining or fading away. Instead protesters took to the streets in huge numbers for the fifth weekend in a row, defying riot police who blocked off the city centre with military vehicles.
  1. A sheriff’s deputy in Georgia has been fired after being captured on video repeatedly punching a Black man during a traffic stop, authorities said on Sunday. The deputy was fired for “excessive usye of force”, the Clayton county sheriff’s office said. It did not identify the deputy, but said a criminal investigation had been turned over to the district attorney.
  1. Attacking Joe Biden and seeking to exploit reports that his rival is struggling with Latino voters, Donald Trump boasted on Sunday of receiving “the highly honoured Bay of Pigs Award” from Cuban Americans in the battleground state of Florida. Perhaps inevitably, and to the glee of the internet, no such award exists.
DrBlackbird · 13/09/2020 23:55

Just realised that No. 2 could be slightly misconstrued, but I'm sure you realise the heartening news was not another black American being beaten (!) but rather for once there seems to have been repercussions for the officers involved.

prettybird · 14/09/2020 00:23

Another explanation of the inexcusable choices of the WM government from Michael Dougan, Professor of European Law. Some of his language is not very lawyerly - I think he's a bit annoyed at the disregard for the law Wink

Lots of requests for a step-by-step explanation of Johnson's plans to breach Protocol on Irish border.

No problem. And by the end, you'll understand why this man is totally unfit to hold public office.

Voila:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1305170696230891520.html

DrBlackbird · 14/09/2020 01:04

Have written to my MP though he's just a party man.

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