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Brexit

Westminstenders: Pah International Law. Who needs it?

978 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/09/2020 18:09

I mean its not as if trade deals and human rights are relevant is it?

(sorry eating my dinner so must be brief)

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DGRossetti · 18/09/2020 09:59

@Peregrina

I read on Facebook that Lord Moylan is disturbed by rumours that Barrister MPs have been receiving calls from heads of chambers saying that they will never work in the law again if they support the internal market bill. Commentators think that he is the one in the wrong and that Heads of Chambers are right.
Which actually demonstrates the web like nature of our democracy. If you do want to pull it apart, you will discover it's connected in all sorts of funny ways to all sorts of odd places.

Worth remembering that England and Wales are also common law jurisdictions. On the basis that I still have idea what that means, despite repeated attempts to educate myself, it's axiomatic that no one in Government (who isn't a lawyer presumably) does either.

ListeningQuietly · 18/09/2020 10:15

pointy
DS heads to Uni next week.
Everything I've heard is that the Unis will treat themselves as bubbles, keeping all of the youngsters safely there away from their grandparents Grin

pointythings · 18/09/2020 10:23

LQ mine don't even have grandparents anymore!

My fostered teen will be in halls, DD1 is in a private let, but one which isn't in a studenty area. I'm not actually that worried about them as neither is the party animal type. DD1 is going back to her volunteer role in the museum, but will have PPE.

I'd just hate for them to be sent home again soon, they need to be out there living (sensibly). DD2 has blossomed so much from being back at school - she was devastated when a fibro flare kept her home last week.

Singasonga · 18/09/2020 10:47

Yes, my kids have really perked up from being back at school. I would like sending them to school to be okay, not a one-way ticket to economic and health disaster. It will require upping testing, though - not attempting to make testing profitable. Angry

FFS, the test involves having a swap shoved up your nose and then to the back of your throat. Hancock's suggestion that people are getting them done for a bit of free fun is bloody risible.

TheElementsOfMedical · 18/09/2020 11:03

www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/brexit-has-now-cost-more-than-the-international-space-station/17/09/

Brexit has now cost more than the International Space Station GrinGrin

DGRossetti · 18/09/2020 11:15

Johnson Backers Hit Out at Biden Over Brexit Trade Deal Threat

(Bloomberg) -- Boris Johnson’s supporters turned on Joe Biden after the Democratic presidential nominee ruled out any U.K.-U.S. trade deal if the prime minister’s effort to rewrite the Brexit withdrawal agreement

threatens peace in Ireland. “We don’t need lectures on Northern Ireland peace deals from Mr Biden,” Former Conservative Party Leader Iain Duncan Smith said in an interview. “If I were him, I would worry more

about the need for a peace deal in the USA to stop the killing and rioting before lecturing other sovereign nations.”

On Wednesday, Biden said any trade deal would be contingent on preventing the return of a hard border in Northern Ireland, something Johnson’s move to re-write sections of the Brexit deal threatens to bring about,

risking more than two decades of peace. “We can’t allow the Good Friday Agreement that brought peace to Northern Ireland to become a casualty of Brexit,” Biden said on Twitter.

“Any trade deal between the U.S. and U.K. must be contingent upon respect for the Agreement and preventing the return of a hard border. Period.”

Indiana-born Tory MP Joy Morrissey told Biden to “climb down off your moral high-horse” before deleting the tweet, while close Johnson ally Conor Burns tweeted sarcastically at the former vice-president.

Johnson has long touted a free-trade accord with the U.S. as one of the key prizes of Brexit and Biden’s intervention underscores how the prime minister is struggling to contain the political fallout from his plan to

unilaterally rewrite the divorce treaty he signed with the European Union less than a year ago.

The government said the legislation aims to stop the EU erecting trade barriers between mainland Britain and Northern Ireland if no agreement can be reached on future arrangements for the region.

On Thursday, a spokesman for the prime minister reiterated that the government is committed to avoiding any return of a hard border on the island of Ireland.

Yet it’s clear Johnson’s position is not cutting through with some U.S. politicians. Biden also shared a strongly-worded letter, signed by four senior members of Congress, which urged Johnson to

“abandon any and all legally questionable and unfair efforts” to breach its agreement with the EU.

“The United States Congress will not support any free trade agreement between the United States and the United Kingdom if the United Kingdom fails to preserve the gains of the Good Friday Agreement

and broader peace process,” the letter said. “If these reported plans were to go forward, it would be difficult to see how these conditions could be met.”

The prime minister will be more encouraged by the tone of Donald Trump’s administration. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said Wednesday trade talks are progressing well, and that he backed the U.K.

as a trustworthy partner despite the furor over Johnson’s Brexit plan.

“I am confident they’ll get it right,” Pompeo said at a joint press conference with U.K. Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab in Washington. “We know the complexity of the situation.”

Still, the risks are real for Johnson, especially with U.S. presidential elections looming in the fall.

Speaking to Irish national broadcaster RTE on Thursday, Chairman of the U.S. House Ways and Means Committee Richard Neal said Raab had told him during their meeting the U.K.’s Withdrawal Agreement is

“open to interpretation.” In response, Neal said he told Raab there would be no new trade deal between the U.K. and U.S. if the Good Friday Agreement is undermined.

The approach to the U.K. will be “trust, but verify,” Neal told RTE.

pointythings · 18/09/2020 11:17

Elements I wish I could find that funny, but I just don't. Sad

OchonAgusOchonO · 18/09/2020 11:21

@hanahsaunt

Matt Hancock has just suggested on R4 that the testing shortages are the result of making something free and widely available 😲
www.irishtimes.com/news/health/hse-turns-down-request-from-britain-to-process-tests-in-irish-laboratories-1.4357841

Head of the HSE in Ireland described the United Kingdom’s testing and tracing system as being “in almost collapse” and said it was “shutting down” swabbing centres.

Sounds like he very politely told the NHS to fuck off when they asked the HSE to process tests.

There is plenty we are doing poorly in Ireland but the testing is being managed really well. It's free, it's widely available and it's working.

The average end-to-end turnaround time for testing and contact tracing is currently 2.3 days, while the time from swabbing to test result is 26 hours on average. More than 76,000 tests have been completed this week and over 8,580 contact tracing calls made.

Everyone I know who has had a test has got the test on the same day they contacted the GP and received results the day after.

TheElementsOfMedical · 18/09/2020 11:31

There is plenty we are doing poorly in Ireland but the testing is being managed really well. It's free, it's widely available and it's working.

Shurely shome mishtake? Didn't Mancock clearly explain that the reason why testing isn't working here in the UK is because it's free? Strange how other countries, like right next door in Ireland, don't seem to have that problem Hmm

DGRossetti · 18/09/2020 11:46

@TheElementsOfMedical

And children sleep rough on our streets.
pontypridd · 18/09/2020 12:29

Tory Brexiters gambling on a Trump win - they are totally fucked if Biden wins

Is there some dodgy pact going on between our Tory government and Trump?

SweetRuby · 18/09/2020 12:38

Trumps envoy has also spoken out against damaging the Good Friday Agreement www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2020/0918/1165918-brexit-ireland/?fbclid=IwAR1Ig24HWyzs-4zWm86WdhkJKMybyfr3Fo8IohzT9nTEB3Sr6bj8WCh5_-Q

OchonAgusOchonO · 18/09/2020 12:49

[quote SweetRuby]Trumps envoy has also spoken out against damaging the Good Friday Agreement www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2020/0918/1165918-brexit-ireland/?fbclid=IwAR1Ig24HWyzs-4zWm86WdhkJKMybyfr3Fo8IohzT9nTEB3Sr6bj8WCh5_-Q[/quote]
Presumably as Trump is concerned about the Irish-American vote....

ICouldHaveCheckedFirst · 18/09/2020 12:51

Elements and others, more worrying, from that same article, is this:

Last month Thomas Sampson, Associate Professor at the London School of Economics, warned that “when measured in terms of their impact on the present value of UK GDP, the Brexit shock is forecast to be two to three times greater than the impact of COVID-19.”

DGRossetti · 18/09/2020 13:06

Presumably as Trump is concerned about the Irish-American vote....

... I doubt it.

But it does give him a stick with which to alternately beat Biden and then act the tough man over the GFA to his own congregation.

There was an article I saw earlier this week which noted that we've entered an age when people vying for power have given up trying to court the hearts and minds of the doubters in favour of just amping it up to their own side. Because it's worked so far.

OchonAgusOchonO · 18/09/2020 13:11

@DGRossetti - .. I doubt it.

Why would you doubt it? The Irish American vote is huge.

www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/as-trump-sells-luck-of-irish-products-others-draw-on-ireland-s-values-1.4208204

On St Patrick’s Day, Donald Trump’s re-election campaign launched “Irish Americans for Trump” – “a coalition to commemorate Irish-American contributions to our economy, military and history”.
According to the Trump campaign, the new coalition aims to “bring the Irish-American community together and to share their support for President Trump”.

bellinisurge · 18/09/2020 13:27

The Irish American vote is not a voting bloc. There are going to be meatheads who are more devoted to Trump and don't even know where Europe is.

FatCatThinCat · 18/09/2020 13:31

I read an article the other day that said this is Johnson's Suez moment. He's massively overestimated the UK's position in the global order and is going to get crushed between the USA and the EU over breaching the NI protocol. He's gambled the country on the belief that Trump will jump on his anti EU bandwagon, as we all know Trump hates the EU. However he failed to factor in the power of the Irish American sector or the fact that it's Congress not the president who take the decision on trade agreements. Trump may be thick but even he understands that undermining the GFA is a major vote loser.

DGRossetti · 18/09/2020 13:33

Why would you doubt it? The Irish American vote is huge

Yes. but do they vote Trump ?

Like I said, some commentators have noticed that the current "winning" strategy is to avoid wasting any effort in trying to court votes you wouldn't normally get, in favour of appealing to your own side.

Personally, I'd like to be wrong. The idea that Trump sees votes in a bit of Boris bashing is too funny for words.

Time, as ever, will tell.

OchonAgusOchonO · 18/09/2020 13:34

@bellinisurge

The Irish American vote is not a voting bloc. There are going to be meatheads who are more devoted to Trump and don't even know where Europe is.
I never said it was. However, there are many Irish Americans who feel an affinity with Ireland. If they see Trump standing up for Ireland, he is more likely to retain their votes than if he supported the UK in breaking the GFA.
OchonAgusOchonO · 18/09/2020 13:37

Yes. but do they vote Trump ?

Some do, some don't. The Irish Times article I linked to suggests Trump sees it as worth his while to court these voters. He would hardly have launched a campaign called Irish Americans for Trump if there weren't votes in it.

Like I said, some commentators have noticed that the current "winning" strategy is to avoid wasting any effort in trying to court votes you wouldn't normally get, in favour of appealing to your own side.

I don't think he's courting votes he wouldn't normally get. I think he's ensuring he doesn't lose those he has.

DGRossetti · 18/09/2020 13:39

I read an article the other day that said this is Johnson's Suez moment.

At least we had France to keep us company then ...

DGRossetti · 18/09/2020 13:41

And a hint as to how a new terror war might go ..

www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54204356

German police have launched a homicide investigation after a woman died during a cyber-attack on a hospital.

Hackers disabled computer systems at Düsseldorf University Hospital and the patient died while doctors attempted to transfer her to another hospital.

Cologne prosecutors officially launched a negligent homicide case this morning saying hackers could be blamed.

One expert said, if confirmed, it would be the first known case of a life being lost as a result of a hack.

(contd)

Cacacoisfarraige · 18/09/2020 13:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ListeningQuietly · 18/09/2020 13:46

Irish Americans will vote for whoever most supports the Irish Government.
At the moment the Irish Government are doing an excellent job of portraying the English approach to Brexit as akin to imperialism and colonialism
regardless off the hue of the US voter, NONE will vote for whoever panders to English imperialism
and I use English very deliberately

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