Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders: The Truth Isn't A Made Up Concept

994 replies

RedToothBrush · 28/05/2020 16:46

“In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”

Not George Orwell but often attributed to him. But a powerful statement with resonance nonetheless

OP posts:
Thread gallery
60
ListeningQuietly · 03/06/2020 17:41

and ensuring that we are boosting critical supply chains in the UK and around the world.
How does that fit with a hard Brexit?

HesterThrale · 03/06/2020 17:49

What reasons for these dreadful figures could they cast around for? ‘We’re behind in the curve?’ ‘Population greater than all those countries combined?’ No. Nothing really washes.
It’s shocking that we’re still getting this many deaths every day. It’s not going down at all fast.

Westministenders: The Truth Isn't A Made Up Concept
RedToothBrush · 03/06/2020 17:49

DH reckons they're worried that there's already a 2nd peak brewing - particularly Sir Patrick and Prof Chris attending with the blithering idiot in the middle.

Yes their wording today was VERY deliberate and seemed to imply this.

OP posts:
pussycatinboots · 03/06/2020 18:01

Red Granada reports now - pictures of Liverpool demo ShockShock

There's your second wave - right there!

HoneysuckIejasmine · 03/06/2020 18:05

There was a big emphasis on making sure we don't import the virus from abroad causing a second wave ... Quick, blame the forriners!!

colouringindoors · 03/06/2020 18:15

Cannot see how there won't be a second wave to be honest. Think I'm more nervous now than I was in March. The Government and esp Cummings have burnt the goodwill of most of the public. Boris now saying don't gather inside because of bad weather at the same time as schools are opening and f**King JRM makes attending Parliament compulsory if you want to vote is yet Another example of the total and utter incompetence of Johnson & Co.

AvranaKernsBestSpider · 03/06/2020 18:41

Has anybody checked with the 3 million people of Hong Kong and asked if they actually want to come here? Or is the U.K. once again overestimating its usefulness/desirability/status?

Also cultural and language conflicts? English is an official language of Hong Kong and I think just over half of the population speak it.

I agree that the way the government have treated eu citizens is disgraceful and have sent many heated letters to my mp (for all the good it does) but that’s not the fault of the 3m eligible Hong Kongese. It’s the fault once again if this shitty incompetent government.

RedToothBrush · 03/06/2020 18:51

Think I'm more nervous now than I was in March.

If it's any consolation, I'm not.

And I'm struggling with the reopening and dealing with other people.

OP posts:
SabrinaThwaite · 03/06/2020 18:58

Perhaps they (prob. not Whitty and Vallance, who won't want a second wave at all) want to get a second wave in before flu season hits?

DGRossetti · 03/06/2020 19:02

yorkshirebylines.co.uk
Chlorinated chicken is just the tip of the iceberg – Yorkshire Bylines
Pauline Allon
7-9 minutes

During the 2016 referendum campaign, senior Leave figures promised a UK-US trade deal as one of the major prizes of Brexit. This is now the ambition of the UK government. But an investigation by Unearthed has revealed that a powerful lobby group, representing US chicken producers, is working with allies in Congress “to demand that a post-Brexit trade deal eliminates the UK’s ban on chlorinated chicken imports.”

On 13 May, MPs debated the new agriculture bill, which sets out the future direction for farming. The bill contained a number of additional amendments including:

To ensure food labels show methods of production allowing consumers to make informed choices.
To ensure that UK farmers are protected from cheap food imports produced from lower standards.
To protect animal welfare by ensuring that standards are not reduced in order to secure trade deals.
To protect the environment including soil protection, insect recovery, and water quality and to tackle the challenges of climate change.

The debate concluded with a three-line whip requiring Conservative MPs to vote against the amendments. Although 22 Conservative MPs defied the whip, it was not enough to get the amendments included into the bill, which now proceeds to the House of Lords.

The UK currently has one of the highest standards of animal welfare and food production in the world. Removing these protections will have a direct impact on our farmers and consumers. The National Farmers’ Union have already raised concerns about this, as we’ve highlighted elsewhere in Yorkshire Bylines. Brexit offers prospective trading partners the opportunity to expand into the British market. With the US, this raises the prospect of chlorinated and acid-washed chicken.

Chlorine washing is not in itself a concern, after all, bagged salad leaves are washed in a chlorine rinse as a safeguard against E.coli and salmonella. The worries surrounding chlorinated chicken are due to animal welfare and food hygiene standards. The Soil Association explains:

“Chlorinated chicken is poultry meat that has been washed with chlorine. After slaughter, the chickens are rinsed with antimicrobial chlorine wash to protect consumers from food-borne disease. This is done to treat high levels of bacteria, a symptom of poor hygiene and low animal welfare conditions not allowed in UK farming.”

It is claimed that one in six people in the US get food poisoning each year as against one in 66 people in the UK. The EU banned chlorine washed chicken in 1997 because of food safety concerns such as these. As a member of the EU, the UK took a key role in setting the rules and still upholds these high standards in our farming and food production industries. A deal that allows countries to import lower-standard meat to the UK will result in UK farmers being undercut and left struggling to compete.

The US ambassador, Woody Johnson, suggested in the January 2019 that rather than maintaining these higher standards, Britain should embrace American farming methods in order to seal a transatlantic trade deal. He went on to criticise EU and UK farming practices citing them as a “museum of agriculture”. So what are these higher standards we’re clinging onto in our museum of agriculture?

In the US, the poultry business is more intensive and has lower welfare standards than in the UK. The UK has adopted a ‘farm to fork’ approach that requires sanitary practices to be used all along the production chain to ensure that food sold to consumers is safe. This makes chlorine washes unnecessary. But research shows that after chlorine washing, bacteria such as salmonella and listeria can remain active on the chicken carcasses in a viable but non-culturable (VBNC) state. This means that the bacteria are in a state of very low metabolic activity and do not divide, but are alive and have the ability to become culturable and therefore start dividing once resuscitated – sometimes they can remain in this state for over a year.

Life is short and painful for the chickens who have virtually no legal protection from welfare organisations. At seven weeks, the birds reach their target weight. Such fast growth leads to skin problems, heart disease and premature death. According to Isabel Oakeshott and Philip Lymbery in their book Farmageddon, in order to increase profits, as many as 30,000 birds are crammed together in an area of 15m by 150m. In this environment, the birds spend the day sitting in their own waste leading to painful skin lesions which have been associated with high levels of campylobacter.

The Alliance to Save our Antibiotics claims that in order to prevent disease, birds are fed large amounts of antibiotics. This can be as high as 52mg/kg compared with 17mg/kg in the UK. In the US, 80 per cent of all antibiotics sold are for use in animal agriculture, of which 70 per cent are considered important to human health. This is the true cost of factory farming where more and more antibiotics are used to mask ever-increasing health problems in animals raised in intensively farmed environments.

Oakeshott and Lymbery say that factory farming in America is grim for both animals and the workforce. Big business, concerned only with profit-dictated production methods, set legally binding contracts that pay producers according to targets being met. This places pressure on workers and producers to cut corners. Demands for increased animal welfare or workers’ rights are frequently met with threats of termination of contract. These agri-business lobbyists are the powerful organisations insisting that if the UK wants a trade deal with America, they must abandon EU food regulation. In his book Brexit without the Bullshit, Gavin Esler, says these groups see a trade deal with the UK as a ‘bastion’ against the EU’s precautionary regulation. Whatever the science says, it is the politics that rules in trade deals.

Lowering our animal welfare and food production standards would present a barrier to any trade deal with the EU and a barrier to UK farmers wanting to export food to the EU through the single market. While the UK is trading as a member of the EU we are protected by the EU precautionary principle rule, meaning that if a product has not been proven to be healthy it cannot be imported into the EU (and at present the UK). Food such as chlorinated chicken, hormone-treated beef and genetically modified crops, plus food additives such as brominated vegetable oil added to citrus drinks, potassium bromate use in bread, and azodicarbonamide as a cereal conditioner, are all banned due to food safety.

Instead of bowing to US pressure to lower our standards, the UK must grasp the opportunity to export high animal welfare and environmental protection to other countries. In so doing we can showcase a more humane and caring way of farming to the rest of the world, including developing countries. The prime minister said that animal welfare would be protected in future trade deals. Perhaps we now need this assurance in writing, as references to the manifesto are clearly not enough.

If the government intends to protect our farmers from cheap food imports, protect our high standards in animal welfare and look after and care for our environment, we deserve to see these promises in law – we need transparency and assurances now.

RedToothBrush · 03/06/2020 19:03

I don't think we can get a second wave in before the autumn now.

Timings aren't possible.

OP posts:
SheWranglesRugRats · 03/06/2020 19:08

When Dido Harding was head of TalkTalk, the BBC asked her whether the leaked data was encrypted. She said she didn't know.

ListeningQuietly · 03/06/2020 19:13

I have been out and about all over the south most days of lockdown.
Some days mine was almost the only car on the M3 / M27 / A34 / A31.
I have been into other people's houses.
Other people have come into my house.
I have been into staffed offices
all perfectly legal : I carry the relevant legislation in the boot of my car
This whole second wave stuff is hysteria
as is the 2m distancing

In crowded places wear masks so you do not gob on people or inhale their gob

After going to the toilet wash your hand thoroughly yes blokes, even after having a piss

Before eating wash your hands thoroughly as our grandparents taught us but we arrogantly forgot

COVID is a wake up call
not a reason to shut down common sense

Brexit and Climate change are MUCH BIGGER REAL THREATS

OldLace · 03/06/2020 19:18

I just spoke to my neighbour about my MP's response.
She asked me if I knew about the 'chinese comment' last month.
I had not, so I googled it.

Cabinet minister Anne-Marie Trevelyan has been accused of racism over a coronavirus-related Chinese "joke" she made on WhatsApp.

The International Development Secretary sent an image of a fortune cookie showing the broken-English message "You not have coronavirus" to a group containing fellow Tory MPs.

The image, which she forwarded from another chat, also bore the words: "Just received my COVID-19 rapid test kit from CHINA! soooooo relieved!!!!!! Thanks beijing!!!!"

Now I realise how pointless it was writing to her in the first place :(

ICouldHaveBeenAContender · 03/06/2020 19:26

DGR that's an excellent article. Depressing though. I have no power to stop the juggernaut. Where are the people who have the power to stop us going down that route? How do we get that article in front of them?

mrslaughan · 03/06/2020 19:45

I really liked the article , just two comments.... when I looked into chlorinated chicken the info found that the level of chlorine used is far higher for chicken than salad (does anyone else know?)..... and I don't think there is any chance of exporting our food standards to USA.... companies like Tyson are far too powerful (and are bullies/cut from the same cloth as Trump)

Pepperwort · 03/06/2020 19:53

AvranaKerns of course I haven't checked whether they want to come. I hope they don't, because it is not possible. The point is that an invitation has been made by an overpopulated island to 3 million people. We cannot take in all those people here. Where were you thinking they could be put? Just for comparison, Wales has a population of around 3 million. 3 million is about the same as the the populations of Birmingham, Nottingham & Derby and Leicester combined. Total population of the East Midlands region is about 5 million.

I apologise for the slip up around potential conflicts, I've just been involved in a language debate elsewhere so that's why that slipped in. Let's leave it at cultural then, nice catch-all term.

Pepperwort · 03/06/2020 19:57

Regarding the BA redundancies, I very much doubt the Unions just made it up. They will be acting on information they've heard from somewhere. To the poster thinking that it was illegal to sack people and hire them on again at reduced wages, forgive me, but that sounds a little naive. There is nothing illegal as far as I know in making one role redundant, and then creating a new role which coincidentally has the same job description with just one or two words changed, and offering lower wages for it. It is how these things are usually managed, and I do mean usually: I have known people it has happened to. Have you noticed that jobs now are asking for more skills and offering lower wages? What choice do we have but to take them?

Pepperwort · 03/06/2020 20:02

And another slip-up: can I pretend I didn't add Birmingham to that list Smile!

AvranaKernsBestSpider · 03/06/2020 20:28

Pepperwort Smile Did you say Birmingham? I didn’t see Birmingham (nod nod wink wink Wink )

I just think of all the things to worry about, this is not one to give much headspace to. I’m not sure how much of a draw the UK is to someone from Hong Kong which aside from the obvious problems with the government has good education/healthcare/lifestyle etc, and compared to other countries which have more established Asian communities (and better weather!)

Also, I don’t trust Boris Johnson as far as I can throw him, so I don’t believe for a second that he’ll actually follow through on this. Combine those two and I don’t need to worry about where we’ll put “them” because it will never happen Smile

RedToothBrush · 03/06/2020 20:34

Nick Eardley@nickeardleybbc
NEW: Business Secretary Alok Sharma self-isolating and has been tested for Coronavirus.

He began feeling unwell in the chamber today, spokesperson says.

Would this be a good way to do a uturn to reverse the Mogg Conga?

OP posts:
SwedishEdith · 03/06/2020 20:36

Was coming to find this new thread to post that. Of course, it might not be but... I hope the bloke is okay but if it is that, he'll have surely infected others? All for JRM.

HesterThrale · 03/06/2020 20:40

So in talking about a second wave, are people thinking they'll see a clear 'going down and coming back up again' on the charts? (I'm no statistician, by the way!)

We still have a stubbornly high daily death rate. Couldn't this in effect be a kind of second wave which results from 3 /4 weeks ago when people were encouraged to return to work and go on trains/buses etc?

We didn't really pause and take stock for a week or two at the end of strict lockdown: we immediately eased restrictions. So maybe we won't see the charts actually bottoming out?

mrslaughan · 03/06/2020 20:44

Seen on Twitter...

Westministenders: The Truth Isn't A Made Up Concept
OldLace · 03/06/2020 20:45

@BigChocFrenzy

My exH (the children's Father) works for a large Scottish bus Co and has done for 20 years. He was furloughed, no choice. Cannot work or volunteer whilst furloughed. Given he is mid 50's overweight and has asthma and some mild heart issues and bus drivers have died in London I was not unhappy about it. BUT...
the Co have sent a survey out (to their 2,000 drivers) asking them to declare if they CAN return to work. So he said yes. The 2nd survey has asked for volunteers to return to their (paid) work. He has not taken this up yet. He has his annual 2 week summer hols in a fortnight (cannot be moved outwith furlough period, which is a pity as he was going to take kids to see grandparents 200m away but obvs not possible atm). I think he'd be wise to volunteer to return asap as I think the Co will use this list to make redundancies, but hey ho. If they do, it will be hard to find another manual job in his mid 50's I suspect.

He said that the paperwork he had to sign re Furloughing retracted his redundancy rights but I didn't see it so don't know if correct?

Swipe left for the next trending thread