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Brexit

Westminstenders: Magical Thinking

973 replies

RedToothBrush · 24/05/2020 19:39

This week has seen reports of the government editing footage of Johnson to avoid embarrassing questions about the early government response.

We've been asked to accept that the rules were different to what we were told to excuse the law breaking behaviour of a senior government advisor. As Johnson said he was being a responsible father (as if Johnson knows what this is) and it wasn't as if he was visiting a lover (this Johnson would know all about). Let's be honest Johnson is the master of brazening out controversy.

We also have the ERG complaining they were lied to by Gove about the new Withdrawal Agreement and the border in the Irish Sea which surprises precisely no one else.

They appear to be a little upset by the Cummings debarkable too.

Westminstenders: Magical Thinking
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QuestionMarkNow · 26/05/2020 09:04

I’m always reading some of those ‘trash’ papers to see what they are saying (they are after all reflecting what (A big) part of the population is thinking)

www.thesun.co.uk/news/11706630/dominic-cummings-triumphant-critics-floundering/

So apparently, DC has come out triumphant and is the best man ever. We all owe him the best that has happened in the last 4 years and we should thankful that he is around.
I’m wondering how many of The Sun readers will believe that when they had been stuck at home unable to see family...
Unless they are also the ones who havent follow the rules to the letter (there are, after all, about 20% of people who are réfractant to the rules on CV-19)

SabrinaThwaite · 26/05/2020 09:08

Those Spi-B tweets:

Stephen Reicher @ReicherStephen

As one of those involved in SPI-B, the Government advisory group on behavioural science, I can say that in a few short minutes tonight, Boris Johnson has trashed all the advice we have given on how to build trust and secure adherence to the measures necessary to control COVID-19.

Be open and honest, we said. Trashed. Respect the public, we said. Trashed. Ensure equity, so everyone is treated the same, we said. Trashed. Be consistent we said. Trashed. Make clear 'we are all in it together'. Trashed.

It is very hard to provide scientific advice to a government which doesn't want to listen to science. I hope, however, that the public will read our papers (publicly available at gov.uk/government/gro…) and continue to make up for this bad government with their own good sense.

Susan Michie @SusanMichie

As another member of SPI-B, I completely agree.

Singasonga · 26/05/2020 09:13

That Sun headline is something else. I'd love to have heard the editorial conversation around taking that position - you know there's no way anyone on the paper actually believes that.

Singasonga · 26/05/2020 09:21

...actually, I'll answer that myself (based on some astute comments by others upthread):

  • Johnson has a big majority and is still at the very start of his term
  • The AG is in his pocket and will do as she's told
  • They are so secure in their "fuck you" position they even put DC out in public to make it even clearer that they're entirely brazen about their lying and lawbreaking, and they expect to get away with it
  • They're regularly caught rewriting history (DC's blog, edits to BJ video, edits to reopening guidelines)

As Trump demonstrated in the US, an awful lot of democracy is predicted on the idea that a majority of people in government have a vague sense of morality. When you have this particular iteration of "conservatism" in charge and they make it clear they have no morals at all, papers like The Sun will make a conscious choice to jump ahead of the story because they know there is little to stop it, and they want to be on the right side of power.

TheElementsOfMedical · 26/05/2020 09:31

Here's an example of Costly Signalling to the new ToryBrexitCummings cult (ironically against a member of the old cult). And a further Costly Signal from more of the new cult.

Westminstenders: Magical Thinking
Westminstenders: Magical Thinking
QuestionMarkNow · 26/05/2020 09:35

I think this article in The Sun is important for another reason. We know from the Brexit vote that areas that usually don’t read The Sun (Liverpool) haven’t voted the same way that the rest of the country. Just as much as I don’t like them, it’s interesting to see what they are ‘feeding’ their readers.

The article (well the first 3/4, I gave up after that) is basically reminding people who important he was in winning brexit (and therefore how important it is that he still there). He is portrayed as THE ONE that won that election, not BJ. This is important.

They are still trying to ride the wave of ‘getting brexit done’. How much they will be able to do so when Even the ERG Is grumbling about the Irish Sea border and the economic downturn from Covid will be visible, I dont know.... Unfortunately, I suspect all this will come too late for us to get the extension the U.K. needs and we will face a hard brexit anyway :(

UltimateFoole · 26/05/2020 09:36

Kay Burley on sky news asked Michael Gove when SpecSavers is reopening.

Grin Grin Grin

QuestionMarkNow · 26/05/2020 09:40

I’m wondering how people will react to that statement TheElement.
Because my first reaction was ‘But HE put lives in danger by not following the guidelines!!!‘

I wondering how wrong the behaviourists in the government can be. Will the majority accept we shouldn’t be talking about it because it’s encouraging people to flout the rules too? (Forgetting that this is recognising that going to Durham was ‘not following the rules’....)

SabrinaThwaite · 26/05/2020 09:41

@TheElementsOfMedical

Interesting that the response to the Bishop is from someone pushing the autistic child narrative again.

Where is the evidence that the child is autistic? Seems to be something that has emerged on SM to reinforce the “only protecting his family” narrative.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 26/05/2020 09:48

Douglas Ross has quite as under secretary for Scotland.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 26/05/2020 09:48

Or quit even

TheElementsOfMedical · 26/05/2020 09:50

Where is the evidence that the child is autistic? Seems to be something that has emerged on SM to reinforce the “only protecting his family” narrative.

There is no evidence. As you say, it emerged on SM and was eagerly spread around the faithful. Whether or not the child has autism is entirely a red herring, but is a useful double-whammy for the faithful: they can both use the "special circumstances for specially poorly darling child" and instantly switch to "how dare opponents discuss the private medical matters of a child" in almost the same breath.

tabulahrasa · 26/05/2020 09:51

“I have constituents who didn't get to say goodbye to their loved ones; families who could not mourn together; people who did not visit sick relatives because they followed the guidance of the government. I cannot in good faith tell them that they were all wrong and one senior adviser to the government was right."

From Douglas Ross’ resignation letter...

MockersxxxxxxxSocialDistancing · 26/05/2020 09:57

The return of the "Marxist" CofE?

And this mob are not Conservatives. Conservatives follow the tenets of Burke, Hobbes, Locke,Adam Smith, Peel, Disraeli and Macmillan.

This lot are Neoconservatives, disciples of Machiavelli, Friedman, Leo Strauss, Keith Joseph, Thatcher and the delightful Sebastian Gorka.

JeSuisPoulet · 26/05/2020 09:57

I wish one of the papers was running with "Unelected bureaucrat tells world he decides what Boris sees" Grin

I also wish they had grilled him over which "fake" stories there were and when he first reported to the police he was feeling threatened in his own home.

Sadly people jump on the autistic bandwagon (as a form of #BeKind) whenever someone with a lack of interpersonal skills needs excusing. IME autistic children love rules...

DrBlackbird · 26/05/2020 10:00

Only problem with Douglas Ross resigning is that this means yet another Tory politician with some integrity and belief in serving the public is exiting the government. On top of those that were booted out and/or resigned (including Johnson's brother) in trying to prevent a No Deal Brexit. Who does that leave to govern us?

longwayoff · 26/05/2020 10:01

Sometimes, when you're driving your family around the countryside testing your eyesight - like any responsible parent would - you get stuck behind a tractor with a load of horseshit. Can this be another 'can't remember'? As, clearly, that load stuck fast to Mr C. We can see it and smell it, thanks.

borntobequiet · 26/05/2020 10:11

Easy enough to see if you have had the virus. I ordered a kit online, it arrived 2 days later, I did the test and posted it the next morning, got result 2 days later.
It was negative 😕

JessicaDay · 26/05/2020 10:14

I was initially surprised at Douglas Ross’s resignation. He’s my MP and usually toes the party line to the letter. He also got flak for choosing to officiate a Champion’s League match over voting in parliament.

Wafer thin majority though. His inbox in the last few days will have dwarfed his majority.

Well, well, well.

Peregrina · 26/05/2020 10:21

Scottish MP though - remember in 2017 Labour, LibDem and Tory only managed one MP apiece. This could easily be repeated next time; especially since Johnson has shown that he doesn't care about the opinions of the devolved Governments.

ClashCityRocker · 26/05/2020 10:22

I'm surprised about my mp. He's saying DC should resign, and he usually doesn't say anything whatsoever... Unless it's to do with dualling the ring road. Was a big BJ supporter too.

DGRossetti · 26/05/2020 10:25

For those that like intrigue and dark rumours, I've read a couple of posts wondering if Cummings kid is another one of Boris's undeclared ones???

MockersxxxxxxxSocialDistancing · 26/05/2020 10:25

World Gone Mad - Official

I'm sat here nodding and agreeing about everything with Michael Bleeding Heseltine.

TheMShip · 26/05/2020 10:26

Is anyone tracking anywhere which Tory MPs have called for DC resignation?

boatyardblues · 26/05/2020 10:29

World Gone Mad - Official

I'm sat here nodding and agreeing about everything with Michael Bleeding Heseltine.

I was talking to friends recently and we were discussing how unsettling it was for several of us to find ourselves agreeing with Piers Morgan recently.