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Brexit

Westministenders: Reployed back to No Deal Planning

974 replies

RedToothBrush · 18/05/2020 22:52

Now Covid-19 is over (yeah I know right) lots of civil servants who were switched from brexit no deal planning to covid-19 planning have been switched back to their original remit.

For some reason this doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

We've also seen yet another doubling down on the EU not being flexible and how they need to make a deal. And lots of rhetoric about being serious about no transiton planning.

Remember we have something of a deadline looming at the end of next month.

So before we are even out of this crisis, the government have lost interest. Today's press conference was an eye opener - Van Tam openly said that the time taken to get test results was too long and wasn't good enough yet and meant track and trace wasnt still operational despite it being such a crucial factor in being able to go into the next phase as planned on 1st June.

Another deadline we won't make - the Manchester Nightgale still has patients and the local authorities in the NW are going mental. So the government is playing more silly buggers over blame and villianising the evil workshy teachers. Noting the government guidance for teachers on how to teacher children at home says fuck all and the guidance on reopening schools makes a Theresa May dog ate my homework style document look positively well thought out, in terms of practicality. (Not even going to touch on the question of whether its safe - the whether its workable one is more important).

I guess that means things are getting back to normal at least.

A recession looms, but workers rights are now fair game and fully in the government cross hairs - as we see from a lack of PPE for the 'heroes' and the attacks on the teachers. As well as the carers who were sold down river. That'll be the ununionised carers...

Taking back control.

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53
boatyardblues · 20/05/2020 08:55

You have too. 💐

HesterThrale · 20/05/2020 09:09

squid Please don’t think that. The public DO give a shit about NHS staff, and want them to be safe. We all know that without the health service we’re f*ed. You are very much appreciated and valued.

As with everything, it’s the tiny thoughtless minority who shout the loudest, which disheartens all right-thinking people.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 20/05/2020 09:40

But I suppose if we want decent food after 31st December we will have to get used to buying much less but it costing much more

Thats the worry being on benefits, my diet has already suffered as food prices go up my money unfortunately wont and theres no fat to trim Confused

yoikes · 20/05/2020 09:43

My dh and I are rather at loggerheads atm re: food spending...
He just doesn't GET that everything has gone up, that choice will be very limited and that for good quality you have to pay more.
How much worse health wise will the poor and vulnerable be once they are forced to eat hormone fed beef and chlorine washed chicken from our dear colonial cousins??
Ffs.

DGRossetti · 20/05/2020 10:03

First comment on the thread:

Allegedly it's costing £14billion per month to pay 80% of our pay. To renew trident it cost £200billion. That kept us safe didn't it !!!

Westministenders: Reployed back to No Deal Planning
DGRossetti · 20/05/2020 10:47

Not sure what plans the rest of you have, but since they've pre-recorded todays "briefing" I caught it now so I can wash my hair later.

DGRossetti · 20/05/2020 11:10

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-parliament-return-june-mps-robert-halfon-a9523616.html

Senior Tory says government is 'euthanising' vulnerable MPs if parliament ordered to return in June

Robert Halfon speaks out - amid claim Jacob Rees-Mogg wants supermarket-style screens to allow protective wall of MPs behind Boris Johnson

A senior Conservative has accused his own government of planning to “euthanise” vulnerable MPs when parliament is ordered to return next month.

Ahead of a fierce clash in the Commons over the move, Robert Halfon attacked the decision to abandon online voting and participation in debates – even while most Covid-19 restrictions in place.

It comes despite the opposition of Commons staff and other parties and after the Speaker threatened to block any attempt to force MPs to sit closer together.

Robert Halfon, the education committee chair, who has cerebral palsy, accused ministers of favouring MPs who are “Tarzan-like and able to swing through the chamber, beating your chest”

“If there are MPs who are sick, shielding, or self-isolating, surely it is right to let them continue to vote online, and participate in committees also virtually via Zoom and Microsoft Teams,” he argued.

“Is it really morally just to say in effect to MPs, because you are not Tarzan-like and able to swing through the Chamber, beating your chest shouting to your constituents, ‘Look I am here!’ that you are effectively euthanised from the Commons?

“MPs who are disrupted by this awful pandemic are not just old horses to be sent to the knackers’ yard.”

The criticism comes amid a claim that Jacob Rees-Mogg, the Commons leader, wanted to install supermarket-style screens behind Boris Johnson to bypass social distancing rules in the chamber.

It will fuel a widespread belief that the real motivation for fast-tracking a full return of the Commons is to create a wall of noise – as the prime minister struggles in his weekly jousts with Keir Starmer.

In an article for the ConservativeHome website, Mr Halfon told Mr Mogg: “Encourage MPs to return, absolutely. Go back to the traditions, once we are Covid-free.

“But don’t ignore those affected by coronavirus, who want to be legislators, when the technology makes this possible. Please be generous-spirited.”

DGRossetti · 20/05/2020 11:23

Obviously not a UK source.

www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2020/0520/1139430-northern-ireland-brexit/

rte.ie
Brexit has not gone away, as UK set to publish NI plans
5-6 minutes

Brexit is about to raise its contentious head again.

For months, governments in most countries in the world have been preoccupied with the coronavirus emergency.

But today, Ireland and the European Union will be reminded that Brexit has not gone away.

After Boris Johnson and his administration publish their plans to deal with the Northern Ireland protocol in the UK's Withdrawal Agreement, it may seem that the Brussels-London row over Brexit is getting closer.

Late last year, it seemed there was a breakthrough in the tortuous saga of EU/UK negotiations.

Helped by his relationship with Taoiseach Leo Varadkar, Boris Johnson struck a deal with Brussels and it helped him to win a convincing general election victory in December.

It seemed that a hard border on the island of Ireland had been avoided. The solution seemed to be some form of a border down the Irish Sea, that irked unionists, but recognised the unique politics on the island of Ireland.

But now comes the hard part - fleshing out how the British government intends to implement, in practical terms, the Northern Ireland Protocol element of its Withdrawal Agreement.

What Boris Johnson and his administration may see as perfectly plausible and workable proposals are likely to raise the hackles of the European Commission.

The proposals Boris Johnson's administration will publish today are unlikely to defuse Brussels’ concerns.

In a recently published document, the commission set out its position in very plain terms.

It said: "In the context of implementing the Withdrawal Agreement, the Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland remains the biggest challenge, considering the technical complexity and political sensitivity."

The commission listed a number of priorities, including "the introduction of customs procedures and formalities in Northern Ireland for all goods traded between Northern Ireland and Great Britain".

Later in its document, it stated "all implementation measures that may require the creation of new facilities (such as new posts for the performance of official controls, or new customs offices) need to commence immediately to ensure that relevant facilities are operational on January 1st.

"Finally, discussions on the [European] Union presence in Northern Ireland need to be advanced as a matter of urgency as well. We need clarity on the administrative arrangements before we can recruit staff, organise the uptake of their functions, etc."

So where do such commission requirements sit with what the British government is likely to state later today?

The approach that senior members of the British government, such as Michael Gove, and its chief negotiator in Brussels, David Frost, articulated in recent times suggests the UK strategy may be:

No new physical customs infrastructure in Northern Ireland or the UK
No international border in the Irish Sea
No tariffs on internal UK trade
Unfettered access for NI goods going to the rest of the UK
The use of technology to resolve potentially problematic issues
Some expanded infrastructure at ports and airports to deal with agri-food goods only
No EU permanent presence in Northern Ireland in case this would give rise to the concept of joint controls

All of the signals coming from London in recent weeks suggest that, as of now, the British government remains in full steam ahead mode rather than prepared to move towards compromise, or deal exit date territory. The proposals Boris Johnson’s administration will publish today are unlikely to defuse Brussels’ concerns.

The heat of the issue is captured in the issue of Brussels expecting the British government to make provision for an EU Office in Northern Ireland and EU personnel with a function in trading arrangements. It would seem that London will not countenance "an EU official about the place".

(And yet years of watching Boris Johnson teaches one how he often leaves a thread that could someday become an escape rope. 'No permanent EU presence' is a phrase some senior British figures have used in recent times. Does this leave open the possibility of a 'temporary presence'?)

As the stalemate sits, the current British thinking envisages a situation of goods coming into Northern Ireland from the UK, subject to only light touch scrutiny/regulation and no tariffs.

What, Brussels might wonder, would prevent them from flowing across a porous border and into the EU's Single Market?

It also leaves open the possibility of goods from the south, part of the EU, being moved northwards across the porous border, and able to mingle and travel with Northern Ireland goods, with "unfettered access to GB".

Smugglers would delight in the prospect, but the European Commission might take a different view.

Senior figures in the DUP are beginning to accept that even their Sinn Féin partners in government don't support EU requirements that would hinder the functioning of business in Northern Ireland.

But Brussels will have a bottom line of protecting its single market. That won't change, even if Boris Johnson insists on the UK's plans to leave the European Union at the end of this year, deal or no deal.

HoneysuckIejasmine · 20/05/2020 11:23

I have no doubt that the motivation is more to provide cover for Boris' ineptitude than anything else. JRM is vile.

RedToothBrush · 20/05/2020 11:27

amp.theguardian.com/education/2020/may/20/uk-universities-facing-760m-hit-one-in-five-students-plan-defer?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium=&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true
UK universities facing £760m hit as one in five students plan to defer
Exclusive: undergraduates to delay enrolment if classes stay online and activities are curbed

A few issues emerge from this...

... Not just funding.

Next year it may be easier than normal to get on some courses as university are desperate for cash. So possibly more opportunities available in short term for lower (predicted) grades.

But next year we will see a crunch as staff are reduced this year - with less staff there are less places, but there are more students chasing fewer places - if they are given an unconditional place which can be deferred.

The current year 12 who have missed a term are at significant disadvantage in this scenario because they've missed so much this year, as they will need to get higher grades compared to previous years.

Which makes me think that universities are going to be reluctant to offer deferment this year on this year's grades (predicted). They may say that students will have to reapply next year in order to try to stave off this potential crunch.

This might leave some who have an offer of a place this year risking that next year they won't have a place next year. Either because they don't have the grades or the course they plan to do is axed.

Unfortunately something has to give on this...

I know Cambridge is saying 100% online lectures next year. This has to be to preserve its international income rather than to protect its students and staff....

I really feel for students on this.

I also wonder what those planning to defer think they are going to do for a year if there are fewer jobs and opportunities available particularly in traditional gap year occupations / passtimes both here and abroad.

I suppose we could see an uptick in volunteering and maybe there will be labour available on farms... With a recession looming, you do wonder whats going to happen. Will we have a lost generation? Thats a loss of potential doctors and nurses in there too...

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MockersxxxxxxxSocialDistancing · 20/05/2020 11:38

Saw the Cambridge Uni story: Full fees for a correspondence course.

I am thinking, "Sue the bastards."

DGRossetti · 20/05/2020 11:38

I suppose we could see an uptick in volunteering and maybe there will be labour available on farms...

There are two "b"s in "Kibbutz" ....

WifeofDarth · 20/05/2020 11:50

feel like the public just DO NOT GIVE A SHIT that we're going to die. It seems no amount of deaths will register. I'm sure in decades to come we will look back in horror, but right now half the fucking country is supporting this. squid this is my frustration with the school debate. Loads of msgs from friends saying there's no evidence that chn transmit, so should go back to school.
I just can't see how transmission rates could NOT rise once the army of adults needed to run a school gets moving.
If you choose to take the small risk for your child/family that's one thing. But what about those further down the chain of the resulting transmission who don't get the choice ? (Supermarket staff, medical staff)
Once again, the debate has been framed / rigged to make the wrong people answerable for the problems.

DGRossetti · 20/05/2020 11:56

Saw the Cambridge Uni story: Full fees for a correspondence course.

One outcome is that a lot of UK residents make a judgement that simply isn't worth it, and don't sign up. However it would be fascinating if foreign students did decide it was worth it, and did sign up.

Imagine a UK university with 70% non-UK students (possibly all working from their own country) ?

No problem for Matt Hancock, of course. 150% of UK citizens could sign up, so that's OK. And 200% are already in the post.

Piggywaspushed · 20/05/2020 12:07

I'm with Halfon on so much of that. Maybe as schools minister he could speak up for the plans for schools, please?

MockersxxxxxxxSocialDistancing · 20/05/2020 12:09

Ooooooh, Hancock in trouble with Sir for interrupting.

And BJ cannot answer a single question.

DGRossetti · 20/05/2020 12:10

Food for thought ... a reference that is aimed squarely at Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson Gaius Julius Caesar

Westministenders: Reployed back to No Deal Planning
MockersxxxxxxxSocialDistancing · 20/05/2020 12:13

And echoing some voices on other threads, BJ complaining that Starmer is "being negative."

(Reply: 34,000 deaths, of course I'm being negative.)

MockersxxxxxxxSocialDistancing · 20/05/2020 12:14

And Carlos from Portugal and Jenny from NZ can bloody well pay up because we need the money.

PawFives · 20/05/2020 12:28

Once again, the debate has been framed / rigged to make the wrong people answerable for the problems. completely agree, although I think everyone on this thread saw it coming!
Flowers squid I’m sure most people know you and your colleagues are doing all they can despite terrible challenges

HoneysuckIejasmine · 20/05/2020 12:34

Hoyle telling off Hancock

mobile.twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1263065571240927232

HesterThrale · 20/05/2020 12:39

Universities are surely having extensive consultations about how to safely welcome students in September.
One model that I’ve heard of is that lectures are cancelled and go online, so that those large lecture halls can instead be used for smaller, socially-distanced seminars and tutorials.
So students’ presence would still be required in their Uni town.

MockersxxxxxxxSocialDistancing · 20/05/2020 12:45

Halfon is not a minister. He is chair of the Education Select Ctee.

Moggster up now explaining how all MPs can get their chauffeurs and nannies to drive them in.

Piggywaspushed · 20/05/2020 12:47

Oh yes, sorry.

He opines about education a lot and the summer schools with all the massively keen retired teachers and graduates working for free are his idea. Boris literally gives him a Pained Look when he mentions this. And seems now to have delegated him to Gav to sort out.

RedToothBrush · 20/05/2020 12:51

Just a point about the teacher thing and going back to school. This is another issue along the culture war fracture and very much blue collar v white collar worker. Cummings whole leave strategy was based on knowing what people where moaning about and seeking to ultimately divide and conquer.

This isn't different.

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