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Brexit

Westminstenders: No pubs till Christmas?

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 23/04/2020 18:25

Today the news has moved towards acknowledging covid-19 reality: Nicola Sturgeon has explicitly stated that some social distancing will carry on until the new year in all likelihood.

When Matt Hancock asked if this was true for England too, he refused to say yes but he said that Scotland was working from the same framework as England.

In case anyone does still need this spelling out, this means the outlook for the hospitality and leisure industries is bleak.

There are extremely unlikely to be many enjoying a holiday in the sun any time soon, whether it be in Devon or Spain.

We won't be celebrating birthdays in restaurants nor having a pint in the pub.

Conversations on the doorstep from a couple of metres away is as good as it gets.

That means if you can't adapt you may not survive.

To add into the mix changes to customs to those companies who are operating seems insanity. But that's a political not a scientific decision to be made.

Whether reality in this will kick in, in the next six weeks or so before EU budgetary decisions relating to an extension have to be made remains to be seen.

Until then, there is no news but covid-19.

OP posts:
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Danetobe · 01/05/2020 14:58

How anyone can identify verbal communication as boris's strong suit is beyond me. His answers at the briefing yesterday were garbled and disorganised without clarity on what his main points were. It was a bit like listening to trump in many ways. Bouncing from one idea to the next then back again.

DGRossetti · 01/05/2020 15:00

So the emerging narrative is that we need to tax the poor more (a) because we can, and (b) because it's too hard to go after the more wealthy ?

Sorry, if somebody thinks that someone who is already in debt and a payment away from being destitute needs to finds £10 a month more because it's hard to see where Richard Branson or Phillip Green might have stashed their wealth, then you are on something far far stronger than LSD.

For some reason Frankie Boyles dismissal of Liam Neesons "confession" springs to mind ...

What I can't believe about the whole story is that he went looking for a fight in Belfast on Saturday night and couldn't find one ....

boatyardblues · 01/05/2020 15:07

Whats with the pepperoni shortage?? I can't get it anywhere, including wholesalers.

Still available in our local Lidl & Sainsburys. I buy it every week. 🤷‍♂️

ICouldHaveBeenAContender · 01/05/2020 15:16

So, the ONS report contains info on where people are most at risk, and which groups are worst affected. Densely populated deprived areas; people of black African ethnicity. Will this inform public policy on testing? I'm not holding my breath.

LouiseCollins28 · 01/05/2020 15:22

I imagine there is better data out there, but here are som incomes data for the U.K. from wiki Grin

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_in_the_United_Kingdom

midwestsummer · 01/05/2020 15:37

I'm not suggesting it is right per se to remove income from the poor rather than the super wealthy.
I'm suggesting it is a great deal easier and something the current government is more likely to do.
I also think that I have consistently voted to give more of my families income to the government to support society. However those you might think would benefit most from this don't want it and have voted Tory. That is their choice to make.

ListeningQuietly · 01/05/2020 15:38

I've just had a look at the Covid deaths map that breaks it down by ward area.
I admit I'm stunned by how few there have been near here - I can identify colleagues and the parents / grandparents of friends from that map.
Even areas with very high Index of Multiple Deprivation scores have one or maybe two deaths.
THe racial breakdown is astounding - but then with Churches in London still selling quack cures .......

ListeningQuietly · 01/05/2020 15:39

Louise
The IMD data set overlaid with the Covid death data will be 'revealing'

DGRossetti · 01/05/2020 15:42

I imagine there is better data out there, but here are som incomes data for the U.K. from wiki

lack of data is not the problem.

lack of Political will is.

midwestsummer · 01/05/2020 15:42

Interestingly the detailed breakdown of my city shows that the death and infection levels are the about the same currently for the wealthier areas of both black and white areas.
The poorer areas which are exclusively black or Hispanic have double the infection rate.
Suggesting that poverty and all that comes with it is currently the biggest issue.
(Unfortunately we have a lot of very poor areas)

LouiseCollins28 · 01/05/2020 15:46

I find IMD data fascinating listening so yes it will be very revealing to see this alongside Covid cases/deaths. One thing that strikes me though is whether the Ward overlay captures accurately where people live? or whether some wards might be hugely over represented in the stats because said Ward happens to have a hospital located in it!

GingerPCatt · 01/05/2020 16:09

Has anything happened to the report about Russian interference? The one that couldn't be released before the election. Not sure if it missed it in the wave of covid coverage.

DGRossetti · 01/05/2020 16:40

Thank goodness we English are a little more level headed. Whatever next ?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52502325

Coronavirus in Wales: Social care workers to get £500 bonus

JeSuisPoulet · 01/05/2020 17:54

DGR I heard him on the radio having to beg the govt not to tax it or make it rule out benefits of any kind for the workers who receive it. What a shitty place to live when you can't give carers on a minimal wage a bonus for saving lives without them loosing state support for their families!

DGRossetti · 01/05/2020 17:58

DGR I heard him on the radio having to beg the govt not to tax it or make it rule out benefits of any kind for the workers who receive it.

Guess he's shit out of luck then. Oh well, c'est la vie.

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jan/13/bonus-blow-for-greggs-staff-prompts-call-for-benefit-and-tax-rethink

MockersxxxxxxxSocialDistancing · 01/05/2020 18:02

And so Hancock duly announces that he's smashed it with over 120,000 tests.

....but hang on. That's not completed tests. that's over 23,000 tests in the post, with no deliveries on Saturday until further notice.

DGRossetti · 01/05/2020 18:06

And so Hancock duly announces that he's smashed it with over 120,000 tests

The problem is I didn't need to watch to know that would be the case.

DGRossetti · 01/05/2020 18:09

DGR I heard him on the radio having to beg the govt not to tax it or make it rule out benefits of any kind for the workers who receive it.

I have very little idea of their political affiliations, but fair play to all here.

Westminstenders: No pubs till Christmas?
DGRossetti · 01/05/2020 18:19

Armed US protesters enter Michigan capitol to demand coronavirus lockdown end

Wasn't that yesterday ?

Also they were white, so obviously on the right side.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/05/2020 18:19

Not much room to squeeze the poor unless you want to kill a lot more of them - looks like some do

Man who starved after benefits cut off 'had pulled out own teeth'

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/01/man-who-starved-after-benefits-cut-off-had-pulled-out-own-teeth

Errol Graham, a 57-year-old grandfather who died of starvation when his benefits were cut off,
had become so mentally ill that his family believe he pulled out two of his own teeth with pliers, they have revealed.

Fresh details of Graham’s decline, and the traumatic impact on his relatives of his lonely death and subsequent inquest, are revealed in a witness statement filed as part of the latest phase of a legal action taken by the family against the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP).

Graham weighed just 28kg when he was found dead at home by bailiffs sent to evict him in June 2018,
eight months after all his benefits were stopped because of his failure to attend a fitness for work assessment.

His flat had no gas, electricity supply or working phone, just one lightbulb, a broken fridge and no food.

DGRossetti · 01/05/2020 18:21

www.theguardian.com/law/2020/may/01/uk-government-faces-legal-challenge-coronavirus-lockdown-businessman-simon-dolan

theguardian.com
UK government faces legal challenge to lockdown from businessman
Lisa O'Carroll
7-9 minutes

The government is facing a challenge to the legality of the coronavirus lockdown by a wealthy businessman who fears it will kill more people than it saves.

Simon Dolan, whose Jota Aviation company has been delivering personal protective equipment (PPE) to the NHS, has put the health secretary on notice that he intends to issue proceedings for a judicial review unless the government reverses some of the lockdown measures and reinstates freedom of movement.

He is taking the action, which echoes that taken by Gina Miller over Brexit, on the grounds that the lockdown was both legally defective and disproportionate in law. He is also seeking minutes of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) meetings this year, some of which involved Boris Johnson’s adviser Dominic Cummings.

“Failure to do so [release the minutes] will result in an application for disclosure if proceedings have to be issued,” says the “letter before action” that has been sent to Matt Hancock.

Dolan, the author of a book called How to Make Millions Without a Degree?, says he is not taking the case to throw the country into chaos but to restore the public’s right to decide for themselves if they want to visit friends, go to work or stay indoors, according to a crowdfunding page.

He has offered to “consider not issuing proceedings if serious, alternative, less draconian suggested restrictions were imposed”.

His lawyer, Michael Gardner, said the government had been given until Thursday to reply to the letter. If it does not come back with a satisfactory answer, he will apply for an urgent court hearing in the same way Miller did when she challenged the prorogation of parliament last year.

Dolan runs his chartered airline business out of Southend in Essex and employs about 600 people across 10 companies.

He said he had no political affiliation but mounted the action because he feared the cure for coronavirus would be “worse than the disease”, with cancer referrals and chemotherapy down and as many as 18,000 extra cancer deaths predicted, according to recent research by University College London. Reports of domestic violence have risen, and police reported early signs of an increase in suicides and suicide attempts.

“The lockdown is telling us to stop living to avoid dying,” Dolan said. “To imprison people in their homes is an extremely dramatic decision to make. It is unprecedented and it would have been a brave Boris to say ‘no, we are not going to do that’, but it has gone on too long now, and we need to lift it or loosen it.

“Too many people are losing their jobs; people can’t get cancer treatment, there is suicide, domestic violence. Why are we prevaricating? It’s like the government is now keeping this going to justify their original decision, whereas what they should do is say we did this and now we are doing something different.”

His action comes as pressure to relax lockdowns extends around the globe, with the most extreme examples in the US, where gun-toting protesters entered Michigan’s state building on Thursday.

“It’s not storming the city halls with guns like in America, but British people have done their bit, made their sacrifices but life has to go on and it’s going to be really hard for years to come,” said Dolan. He said the crowdfunding drive was an attempt to test British people’s “backbone” as he was “amazed nobody else was doing something”.

A serial entrepreneur, Dolan, 50, from Essex, is worth £142m according to the Sunday Times rich list. He left school at 16 after clashing with teachers and got his first break at 22, putting a £10 advert in a local paper offering to do people’s accounts.

He started his own motor racing team, Jota Sport, in 2008 after his wife bought him a track day as a birthday present, and now lives in Monaco.

His lawyer said the challenge rested on three main points: first, that the lockdown is “ultra vires” – outside of legal authority – because it implemented regulations under the Public Health Act 1984 instead of the Civil Contingencies Act 2004 or the emergency Coronavirus Act 2020; second, that the government reimposed the lockdown on a “disproportionate” basis in law, using an “over-rigid” test regarding its effect on containing the disease but not its impact on the economy, jobs and wider health; and third, that it breached the European convention of human rights covering the right to liberty, family life, education and property.

The Department of Health and Social Care has been approached for comment.

DGRossetti · 01/05/2020 18:25

Errol Graham, a 57-year-old grandfather who died of starvation when his benefits were cut off, had become so mentally ill that his family believe he pulled out two of his own teeth with pliers, they have revealed.

(makes note to let DWP know that they can reduce benefits by the price of a pair of pliers).

BigChocFrenzy · 01/05/2020 18:27

"THe racial breakdown is astounding - but then with Churches in London still selling quack cures "

Listening There is NO evidence that people are dying because of quack cures, in any community

There is a large number of COVID deaths and a large spike in "excess" deaths which probably include unregistered COVID deaths

Across the USA as well

Westminstenders: No pubs till Christmas?
Westminstenders: No pubs till Christmas?
Westminstenders: No pubs till Christmas?
BigChocFrenzy · 01/05/2020 18:35

Of course, wrt quack cures, the champion of these is the US Commander-in-Chief / snake-oil merchant:

First there was that Trumper couple who drank from the fishtank

Then recently:

thehill.com/policy/healthcare/494744-poison-control-centers-report-increase-in-calls-pertaining-to-exposure-to

"Poison control centers in a number of states have reported a rise in calls about exposure to household cleaners since President Trump made remarks suggesting that disinfectants should be looked into as a possible treatment for the coronavirus."

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