Westministenders: Lockdown continues

[BigChocFrenzy]

The UK has been on lockdown since 23 March,
with no end in sight.

The deaths peak is predicted to be around 17 April,
with the controversial IHME prediction that the UK will have considerably more total deaths - 66,000 - by summer than other European countries.

Supermarkets are struggling to satisfy demand for online slots for the vulnerable
and to keep shelves supplied for other customers

Like all countries, the UK economy is being hammered and heading for a deep recession.
Estimates are for UK GDP to fall 15% this year.

A million people have applied for Universal Credit
The self-employed and small - and some large - businesses are struggling to stay solvent.

They don't know how long to plan for.

The PM is in ICU and Raab has taken over as stand-in, but needs Cabinet approval for decisions.
Probably BJ will be unfit to resume his duties as PM for several weeks, if ever.

WIll he stand down soon and let the Cabinet choose a new PM,
or will the UK continue for weeks with a stand-in leader during the worst crisis since WW2

What's the plan, anybody?

Trump's tweet / threat after 3M after his attempted ban on Canada & S America exports was also circulated here, with eye-rolls

Relying on any US company while he's in office looks a risk

www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52161032

"We hit 3M hard today after seeing what they were doing with their masks... Big surprise to many in government as to what they were doing - will have a big price to pay!"

I think Germany or France are more illuminating case studies in terms of demographic similarity and population density.

Motheroffourdragons, Ireland has bought ten plane loads of PPE from China, in a deal worth over €200m to China. No word as to whether this is 3M products, but the Aer Lingus flights to ferry the cargo back were the first ever direct flights between Ireland and China. I suspect normal supply chains are disrupted at the moment, and the German PPE story could be true.

mother Germany, like everyone else, is going outside normal supply chains
This is a crisis

What is produced within Europe is not enough, so we are being told that German states and the federal govt are hunting throughout the world for PPE,
going where they would normally never buy

Other countries are reportedly doing the same

I'll believe the German govt when they say they are hunting down and buying PPE and other equipment from anywhere in the world that has them

News report was that the German military now is being used to transport some goods that have been bought, to avoid any more hijacks / thefts / diversions,
but I don't have a link for this

...raising fears that the virus can be reactivated
Hands up that I'm interested in this because I've been battling the virus for what seems to be some weeks sorry to use damn war analogy and felt I'd turned a corner last week. Then yesterday the cough/fever/SOB returned again.

I desperately want to know how long am I infectious for? Ok so I could go back to the whole self isolating again, but what is going on? Clearly this has all kinds of ramifications for my family but also for eventually going back out into the world. It just seems that it's not always a case of you get it and you're either ill with milder symptoms for a week or you're very ill in hospital for two or three weeks. I wish to god that there had been and was community testing.

Denial, denial ....
I think some people don't want a lasting row between Germany and the USA,
but the Berlin Senate know they bought that PPE and the memories will linger among the public too

Neighbours here still furious
and also keep referring to Trump's attempts to buy exclusive rights to the COVID vaccine that a German firm is trying to develop

So, yes, on reflection USA / Trump is an easy target
If that was a hijack & frame by Putin, then he has played a blinder

DrBlackbird 💐 So sorry to hear you are feeling ill again
What date did you first start symptoms, if I mamy be nosy ?

That is utterly ridiculous you can't get tested, though

• you're in the Uk ?

Yes in the U.K. BCF but it does feel like those of us ill at home are just left to flounder without medical care or input because GPs just don't want to know anything covid related. On the other hand, fortunately, I've not been ill enough to pass the NHS 111 online test. It's a strange no where land of no medical opinion. I'd felt 'not right' for weeks and wondered but actual fever and cough started on March 24th.

I hope you feel better soon, DrB. If I lived in the UK or even in Dublin, I'd be presuming I have had a milder version of Covid19. I joked when someone posted a list of symptoms on FB that I have at least half of them regularly (fatigue, aches and pains, headache) but I did have an upset stomach on March 12th, and chills, headache, sore throat, and a mild fever about 2 weeks after that. I still have a slight sore throat. I actually wondered how I could possibly have picked anything up as I've only been out for shopping and DH and DS haven't been out at all since 12th March when the schools closed here. I've been very careful about shopping (I'm well used to avoiding cross contamination due to DS having a problem with gluten).

It's just the likelihood of having Covid19 is slim to none where I am, leaving other viruses I suppose. It has made me think that nobody has a clue as to how long coronaviruses live on surfaces, how long a person can have it before becoming symptomatic (if symptoms appear at all), and how long a person can continue to pass it on - when they still have symptoms and/or after recovery. It's all unknown.

There is a long series of threads with lungs in the title about having the virus mildly enough not to go to hospital but with it recurring over and over. Seems to take about five weeks to clear. And it comes back with a bang and breathing difficulties at about day 12 - Johnson pattern but most people don’t get admitted

I am another one who has been ill for a long time with varying degrees of illness. Think I ma y be coming out the other side now. I know everything is groping in the dark but I first became ill at a point where the advice was really poor for those who felt ill (other than very strict advice about what self isolation meant which I actually think is less publicised now). At the point that I first fell ill, schools were still open and people widely thought the symptoms were cough AND fever , whereas we now know there are more symptoms and that not everyone has a cough : I think lots of people did not take the required time off at the beginning.

I was lucky I got better really because at one point I phoned 111, got through to an operator, who told me to redial a different line for a nurse and after an hour I hadn't got through and gave up : there are 'fit and healthy people' dying in self isolation, sadly. When I was ill 'phone 999' wasn't even in the advice!

So, that's a long winded way of saying I have had symptoms come and go since March 16th....and I was definitely similar to Boris, in that I just didn't get better. But I do doubt I would have been treated quite like him had I flagged it.

Another well known person who got worse rather than better is Michael Rosen. His daughter hasn't tweeted about him for about a week now after he was admitted to hospital on Day 12. She said he was getting a bit better after a couple of days, then she asked for privacy and now there has been no news. I hope he is OK .

Belated info for people asking about DGR’s source for Johnson’s illness being fake - the source has itself admitted it was fake and apologised: twitter.com/dorset_eye

I'm muting people on twitter who are doing the "he wasn't ill/that I'll/ it was all PR" thing.

It's so tedious and if you want to criticise the Johnson govt there are plenty of other opportunities that won't make you look like a twat.

Main thing that people should be focusing on is the death figures: the government is lying to you. No way they do not have some care home data, and no reason that it can't be released bit by bit (as France did).

Belated info for people asking about DGR’s source for Johnson’s illness being fake - the source has itself admitted it was fake and apologised

What a fucking surprise! Not that it stopped that particular piece of fake news being immediately spread by one of the usual gullible conspiracy theorists...

Not that they’re likely to apologise or apply a modicum of critical thought before posting the next smear to come along.

Top tip: If your “news” source is re-tweeting Chris Williamson and Skwawkbox approvingly, then it’s probably horseshit!

Belated info for people asking about DGR’s source for Johnson’s illness being fake - the source has itself admitted it was fake

I should have added that his history of lying for fun made it more plausible to many than it would have been; and his irresponsibility in flouting official advice by ostentatiously shaking hands with people may have led to their illness and possible deaths. A friend of his said Johnson had always thought illness was for wimps; I hope he’s learnt something now.

CS, I hope he gives you a signed photo for your constant fervent defence of him.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/12/fauci-trump-rebuffed-social-distancing-advice-coronavirus
How long till Trump fires him?

Bodoni

I remember reading on here that fake news is a moral evil, a corrupting canker in our body politic. Or was the silent caveat once again: “Fake news is a moral evil ... unless it’s against our political opponents. Unless it’s against the Tories.”

If you think that there should be no censure for pushing that disgusting piece of fake news (from an organ that couldn’t be more blatantly Corbynite if it tried, so the fakeness was obvious), then you don’t have a moral leg to stand on when criticising anyone else.

So which is it?

Sorry CS, I’m not interested in playing debating games with you.

🎶🎵🎶🎵

Lol I've just read the article. "Shirley knott" oh ffs DGR. Come on....

The problem for me is that the line between fake news and partial/distorted news can be quite thin.

I have no doubt that BJ has been ill. But I somehow have doubts that he would be well enough to record a message to the nation just after leaving the hospital and ICU. Having seen family members who have spent a few days in ICU, they wouldn’t have felt up to anything like this.
This makes me think that:

• he wasn’t as seriously ill as most people who would be admitted to hospital and then ICU. This doesn’t bother me. He is the PM after all.
• it feeds into the story that he is a great man who is strong and courageous and has beaten this disease through his own strength of character. Many people have already balked at that idea as it also says that somehow those who died didn’t have the right strength if character...
• it feeds the story of how amazing the NHs is etc... even though it is obvious he will NOT have been treated the same. I doubt he will have had to wait for his injections/food/help etc... because they were short staffed.
• he is still apparently leading the country. Again this is feeding the hero story With him being at th head of state whist in ICU/recovering. When you know many people take MONTHS to recover and some will have life long issues, this make me hugely uncomfortable. Because either he has been extremely poorly, so poorly that he needed to be in ICU and then there is no way he can lead the country. Or he can lead the country and wasnt actually that poorly (and ICU was just a precaution).

So my question now is: where is the truth? What is or isn’t ‘fake news’, half truth or truth bent a bit as to make it work to give the right image. What is proper news and what is propaganda?
With a government that has a track history of giving half truth or simply lies to get their own way, his story doesn’t sit with me...

I should have added that his history of lying for fun made it more plausible to many than it would have been

Quite so, I was just about to post the same thing. As for the 'working', no, if you are really ill, the last thing you have energy for is work. Getting up to go to the loo, finding the energy to lift a cup of water, that's about the level of energy you have.