Westministenders: Lockdown continues

[BigChocFrenzy]

The UK has been on lockdown since 23 March,
with no end in sight.

The deaths peak is predicted to be around 17 April,
with the controversial IHME prediction that the UK will have considerably more total deaths - 66,000 - by summer than other European countries.

Supermarkets are struggling to satisfy demand for online slots for the vulnerable
and to keep shelves supplied for other customers

Like all countries, the UK economy is being hammered and heading for a deep recession.
Estimates are for UK GDP to fall 15% this year.

A million people have applied for Universal Credit
The self-employed and small - and some large - businesses are struggling to stay solvent.

They don't know how long to plan for.

The PM is in ICU and Raab has taken over as stand-in, but needs Cabinet approval for decisions.
Probably BJ will be unfit to resume his duties as PM for several weeks, if ever.

WIll he stand down soon and let the Cabinet choose a new PM,
or will the UK continue for weeks with a stand-in leader during the worst crisis since WW2

What's the plan, anybody?

ListeningQuietly Starmer like most people in the country know there is no easy solution to ending lockdown, I'd much rather Labour were being seen to be helping the government in this crisis, as the majority of the country whether we like it or not are supportive of the government at this point. I work for the NHS and saw on a healthcare blog about Starmer's response, 'if you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem'. I want Labour to be part of the solution.

and those who do not pay income tax (47% of the adult population) are still allowed to send their kids to school

Where do you end with these sorts of arguments though? We still pay income tax although our children are grown up, so we are now "subsidising" the next generation's children. Similarly, we haven't made much use of the NHS over 70 years, but could easily see that we might use it more heavily as we get towards 80 +.

I feel it's swings and roundabouts - we pay for somethings we don't use, we get things that we do use, but on the whole it balances out.

Violet
I'd much rather Labour were being seen to be helping the government in this crisis
Such as ?

Requesting more testing?
Suggesting they had not bled the NHS and social care dry for the last 10 years?
Reversing Brexit so that we do not have critical shortages of agricultural workers?
Reversing the nursing fees so that more medics were home grown that the NHS was less reliant on immigrants ?

What support SHOULD the Opposition be giving the shower of shit that is the cabinet?

Clapping at 8pm tonight serves no purpose other than gaslighting the real issues

and Starmer is absolutely right to start calling the Government out NOW
before the Brexit truck takes us off the next level of cliffs

I know I don't need to translate this for regulars here ... another beautifully expressed view.

Where do you end with these sorts of arguments though? We still pay income tax although our children are grown up, so we are now "subsidising" the next generation's children. Similarly, we haven't made much use of the NHS over 70 years, but could easily see that we might use it more heavily as we get towards 80 +.

I don't mind paying for services I don't use.

I might mind an awful fucking lot paying for a service that I am prevented from using. Particularly if that prevention is part of a political decision.

I would like Labour to be part of the solution, but this should mean constructive criticism, and not just rubber stamping the Government's actions.

We have already seen a woeful lack of anticipation back in January when Bongs for Brexit mattered more than asking what was happening in China, and did we need to do anything?
We have seen the lies put forward about not joining the EU procurement scheme - from "We don't need you, yah boo sucks" to "We didn't get the email." Then crony Dyson is going to make ventilators when existing ventilator manufacturers are not approached. Priti Patel's woeful non apology and now Hancock trying to pass the buck to the public for not coming forward for tests.

Starmer needs to be smart though - he needs to ask incisive questions which expose the nonsense. So take people not wanting tests - he needs to ask, how and where they have been offered, how many people have actively turned them down? In short the sort of questions that good reporters would do, but seem unable to.

Totally agree with LQ and MaxNormal.

CV + Brexit = biggest clusterfuck in the history of mankind. One of them is totally avoidable. The virus knows no borders.

ListeningQuietly I've no idea what the solutions are. I want Starmer to tell me what Labour would do to end lockdown because he will be asked that question sooner or later.

I want Starmer to tell me what Labour would do to end lockdown because he will be asked that question sooner or later.
But Labour are not in power
it is NOT the job of the opposition to say what they would do in a parallel universe
it is the job of the opposition to ask the right questions - as Peregrina has so rightly said

Peregrina agree with much of your last post which is why I said earlier I'd much rather Starmer focused on testing.

for those who have lost loved ones, never easy but especially hard right now. I haven't, yet, but I dont suppose many of us will escape it in due course, either directly, or someone we know of.

The Schooling issue is particularly concerning me.
I have 2 kids with Autism. Neither have an EHCp so both are at home.
(I will re-apply once / IF they go back although i believe the rules around EHCp's have been suspended for up to 2 years? - havent had time to look properly as both rather needy atm)

Child 1 is 15 and in 1st yr of GCSE's at awful Academy school. In addition to ASD, he is really Dyslexic (dx) and School sent him home a week before they closed saying: we dont know if it is Epilepsy or very severe panic attacks but dont bring him back till its sorted. I have heard nothing from his GP for 3 weeks re the screening for Epilepsy that his Psychiatrist recommends (but only the GP can arrange). So, tricky, he wants to go back but is very stressed at missing a big chunk of his 1st GCSE year. The 2nd child is Y8 and ASD and also Dyslexic (not dx'd) and due an 'enhanced transition' but nothing useful can happen atm. I dont know if I will even get her back. School are sending home lots of work, which neither child can manage, nor is there a facility for handing it in, but they are both very stressed about it. Despite both being on the SEN register, we've not had any contact from either School (shut over Easter anyway tbf).
Goodness knows how it will develop

Since Labour have drifted back into the thread, why am I reading suggestions they deliberately lost the 2017 and 2019 elections ?

New THREAD:

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eureferendumm2016/3882267-Westministenders-Peak-something?watched=1

I am shocked by the level of drawbridge pulling by those with secure incomes (particularly pensioners)

YY @ListeningQuietly

@oldlace - which is exactly why our ds is in a private school with amazing SEN provision. He's not bad enough apparently for a ECHP , but can't cope in state school . I realise how incredibly lucky we are to afford that - at times it has been hard. But it fucking losses me off when people say - we choose that path..... no we were forced down that path, as many with SEN are, just as many are forced into homeschooling.

After testing - then what? This could be yet another fig leaf that the Government hides behind.

Govt: x number have been tested.
Starmer: How many have tested negative? Are these people free to go to work?

Govt: Dyson producing ventilators - how wonderful, look what we have done.
Starmer: How many ventilators has Dyson produced? (Zilch.)
Govt: Waffle,waffle, waffle.

Many people still don't realise how the world we knew has gone, for at least a few years,
don't realise how desperate the situation is
or how ruthless govts around the world will be,
how ruthless the general public will be once they realise this

When a country has to "accept" thousands of extra deaths per year to save its economy,
save millions of people from poverty, losing their homes, bankrupty
avoid crashing out of developed world status .....

then all the old rights are likely to disappear re ECHP, or any child that requires extra attention / staff, or brings extra risk to staff / other pupils

Any kids who can't fit into the new neat pigeon-holes will be excluded,
while the rest are educated in socially distanced schools,
with maybe suspension and no 2nd chance for anyone causing disruption or increased risk.

I am shocked by the level of drawbridge pulling by those with secure incomes (particularly pensioners)

Some of us are now helping out adult children who have lost much or all of their income.

Who could have imagined this, just a month ago
How far we have slid, how normal has changed

Look at the hate against someone who sunbathes outside, away from anyone,
or even just sits on a bench to rest a few minutes

The irrational hate against people staying out in their own gardens,
the cheering on of the police handcuffing and threatening a man with pepper spray, for an extra trip outside ( to leave shopping for someone)

All this fear and frustration is turning some people against any scapegoat they can see.

Imagine if someone can direct all this emotion against one particular scapegoat group ....

Peregrina
Some of us have lost more than half their own incomes AND are trying to support children looking at Graduating into ......... what exactly?
Lockdown is destroying the future far more effectively than Covid

Some people are not much affected - so far - by lockdown

Others have lost their jobs, their small businesses, their life savings, are struggling to pay essential bills and save their homes

Some are taking daily risks, on low pay, to keep essential services going

Lockdown is very unequal in its effects, no surprise
but there is a limit to how long those bearing the brunt will continue to do so

but there is a limit to how long those bearing the brunt will continue to do so
CAN

Lockdown is destroying the future far more effectively than Covid.

Probably, or the badly handled Covid.
I was just trying to say that not all pensioners are selfish.

Many people still don't realise how the world we knew has gone, for at least a few years, don't realise how desperate the situation is or how ruthless govts around the world will be,

I think there are many governments who are jumping at the opportunity to destroy democracy/protect the richest. Its not just Hungary.
Europe has been warning cuntries about that. I think the public needs to be much less naive. Otherwise we will have the same thing happening than with the WWII - people not realising what is actually happening and actually willing supporting x and y until its too late and freedoms have disappeared

Lockdown is destroying the future far more effectively than Covid.

YY and the many of are very vocal about how good the lockdown is are the ones who are more vulnerable aka the over 60s.....
Its not an issue about saying that pensioners are selfish. Its the fact that they are less likely to feel the impact in the same way than SE, newly graduate, young couple, zero hour contract etc etc etc
I think we are all like this. Seeing how one thing can impact us directly and trying to avoid that whereas seeing how badly something will affect someone else is harder (esp if you dont have family in that position for example)