Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminstenders: A test of logistic planning

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 02/04/2020 15:32

We are witnessing a demonstration in Government crisis management.

For the past week journalists have asked the same questions and politicians have said they've already done it / are doing it in the near future. But as time wears on, the inability to produce the answers or demonstrate results is proving illusive.

This will have consequences.

It is a demonstration in how planning has proved to be lacking in certain areas.

With Brexit in mind, the lack of vision, coordination with business and wider capability and capacity this does not bode well.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
42
LouiseCollins28 · 06/04/2020 21:35

Wishing the PM a full and hopefully quick recovery.
If Foreign Sec. Raan is now acting as nominated deputy, surely it is entirely clear who is in charge?

mrslaughan · 06/04/2020 21:39

SOS - the reports I have said , say he is not on a ventilator.... my understanding is that respirators and ventilators are different. So he could be on a respirator- and be conscious..... ventilators is the nasty thing down the throat, and generally you are in an induced coma...

Singasonga · 06/04/2020 21:40

I hope the PM recovers soon. The last thing this country needs is to lose it's elected leader, especially so early in this crisis.

RedToothBrush · 06/04/2020 21:41

When I see tweets like this:

PA Media @PA
#Breaking The Queen has been kept informed by Downing Street about Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s condition, Buckingham Palace said

Thats when I start to get nervous. The Queen only needs to be kept informed in case he dies, and that tweet is a very stark reminder of that

OP posts:
MockersxxxxxxxSocialDistancing · 06/04/2020 21:53

Now can we stop lying about this, please?

Can we dispense with the Raab crap, because we know Gove is really in charge.

Now we need Parliament back and functioning, online or in diving suits if necessary, and no more of this 1953 Shit*

(*When Churchill had a stroke and they kept it secret and the govt. was temporarily led by Rab, just the one A.)

Sorry for BJ, but Icarus and all that.

ListeningQuietly · 06/04/2020 22:01

Cabinet ordered by Ministerial Ranking
members.parliament.uk/Government/Cabinet
but NO WAY would Gove allow Sunak to take the lectern because he's so much more competent than even a healthy Johnson

HoneysuckIejasmine · 06/04/2020 22:05

Every time I see Gove's name written I mentally add on "sound of tentacles slapping" and it really makes me laugh.

Peregrina · 06/04/2020 22:10

As I think I said this morning, we don't now know what to believe, having been told that Johnson was working on his Government papers then.

It would be a rapid rise for Sunak if he took the helm even if only on a caretaker basis while Johnson recovered.

TheNorthWestPawsage · 06/04/2020 22:22

Randy to the rescue Smile

NEW VIDEO! #Andy #StayHome #NewYorkTough 🎶♥️🗽tinyurl.com/yx6ywoeg

twitter.com/randyrainbow/status/1247255014369824768?s=21

TheNorthWestPawsage · 06/04/2020 22:23

Oops wrong thread - sorry!Blush

TheABC · 06/04/2020 22:48

@LouiseCollins28, I was under that impression too.

Question time between Stamner and Raab will be interesting to watch as they both have legal backgrounds.

I can't actually think of a less favourable time to be Acting Prime Minister. I hope, when Johnson moves out of hospital, he is given sufficient time off to recover.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2020 23:01

By the sounds of things, he would need several weeks of proper rest

If he goes on a ventilator, then that is usually for 2-3 weeks on average for CV
and recovery time after a ventilator stay is usually several months to full fitness

He might choose to step down, rather than leave a stand-in PM for that length of time during the worst crisis since WW2

BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2020 23:03

red Are you also thinking of Palmerston ?

DrBlackbird · 06/04/2020 23:13

I don't have a good feeling about Johnson's admission to ICU, but obviously hope that's wrong.

JeSuisPoulet · 06/04/2020 23:18

Erm,is Trump using Bozo asa guinea pig?
Guardian
14m ago
23:02
Kenya Evelyn
Some context on Trump’s claim he is working with the FDA and companies are ready to assist London:

In the week beginning 30 March, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) provided hydroxychloroquine with an “emergency use authorisation” to use on coronavirus patients in some circumstances. State officials in New York have said that about 4,000 seriously ill patients are now being treated with the drug.

But critics point out a side effect is heart stoppage, meaning the drug is potentially deadly. Some medical experts have called for the drug to be used to treat the virus but others have cautioned its need for more trials and controlled testing to avoid worsening the pandemic.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2020 23:21

Is Trump claiming he's working with NHS doctors to save BJ ? Confused
His ego never sleeps:

"We are working with London with respect to Boris Johnson.

He’s been a really good friend.
He doesn’t give up ...

We’ve contacted all of Boris’ doctors"

I hope Trump hasn't really done this.
The doctors are busy, saving lives, hopefully including that of our PM.

JeSuisPoulet · 06/04/2020 23:22

Wouldn't that backfire hugely on Trump if his "new" wonder drug caused heart failure for the PM of UK?

Could this get any more like a weird Netflix thriller? Confused

JeSuisPoulet · 06/04/2020 23:23

Trump must have realised there's no chance of our Doc's doing it, so is happy to act the hero, I suspect.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/04/2020 23:26

I do hope he hasn't been touting that drug he fixated on
Even his own expert tries to avoid mentioning it

Test it on your own people if you must
A foreign PM should not be a guinea pig

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/05/pearl-harbor-us-surgeon-general-coronavirus-deaths-donald-trump-white-house-briefing

In Sunday’s press conference, Trump also repeatedly encouraged Americans to try hydroxychloroquine to treat coronavirus,
despite a lack of scientific evidence to support the use of the anti-malaria drug as a possible remedy for Covid-19.

Trump said his administration has ordered 29m doses to be distributed across the United States,

and later on prevented Fauci from answering a question on the efficacy of the treatment from the White House podium.

JeSuisPoulet · 06/04/2020 23:30

He clearly want's it to be their answer to everything, but it sounds about as useful as the immunity tests that UK ordered.

Why were they not this trigger happy with paying for PPE, Mr Hancock?

NHS doctors would never used an untested drug with efficacy issues and as I said Trump must know this - so he gets the kudos for offering "the cure" and no one will be able to prove otherwise if the worst happens to Bozo. That is, until it causes heart failure in his own country, of course.

RedToothBrush · 06/04/2020 23:37

I wasn't as such no. Its just the phrasing of the statement that's unnerving.

I just looked up Palmerstone's death though with you having said about it:

Palmerston enjoyed robust health in old age, living at Romsey in his home Foxhills, built in about 1840. On 12 October 1865 he caught a chill, and instead of retiring immediately to bed he spent an hour and a half dawdling. He then had a violent fever but his condition stabilised for the next few days. However, on the night of 17 October his health worsened, and when his doctor asked him if he believed in regeneration of the world through Jesus Christ, Palmerston replied: "Oh, surely." His last words were, "That's Article 98; now go on to the next." (He was thinking about diplomatic treaties.)

Which has now unnerved me even more.

I think the thing about this year so far is that whilst 2016 was shocking and marked a shift in the balance of power you could see patterns and the opening up of the possibilities and there was a certain predictability about it if you could read the political signs. And it was a slow creep.

With this and the covid-19 crisis in general its been much more of a complete curve ball and spanner in the works. Yes there was the predictability of a sars like coronavirus emerging and the fact we were over due a pandemic and yes if you paid attention to China and then Italy you could see a mile off that the government response and the NHS were inadequate for those challenges.

But its the sheer speed and scale of the changes its forced that's been unnerving. And the random nature of it, where no one is insulated from it. It's a massively levelling force and yes it has brought these striking ironies and what some describe as 'karmatic' situations (personally I don't believe in this and don't really like the concept of the 'deserving' versus 'undeserving' where ever it pops up). The optics of it do add to the effect though.

I think my point is this year of curveball just keeps giving. Just as you think you've got your head around the last one you've got this next event within an wider crisis situation popping up with a frequency that seems to defy what you reasonably thought was your worst case imaginings (eg oh well Johnson has got covid-19 now he can just get a snivel and then go around saying how it's not that bad rather than shit the bed he's in ICU).

What got me earlier was Raab giving an interview with Kuenssberg tonight. He looked absolutely shell shocked and close to tears and only just holding it together. Also (and this is where noticing the details tells you interesting things), the interview with her was a BBC Exclusive and she had turned up in person in contrast to the normal presser which we've got used to being with video link.

It really struck home the seriousness of it all.

One further point: I really feel for Nadine Dorries now too as she was in contact with Johnson when she had it, and the timing suggest she could indeed have been the source of his infection. Of course we will never know but I'm sure seeing how the timings work she will have real moments of guilt. If you cast your mind back to 2016 it was Dorries who was one of Johnsons key supporters in his leadership challenge, crying when he threw in the towel in dramatic fashion.

The way things seem to interweave with past events leads itself far too easily to conspiracy.

The reality is different but it's hard to see that right now.

I wonder what headlines I will wake up to in the coming week / weeks and I forget what was normal just 2 or 3 weeks ago. We have become do detached from any sense of normalcy. And that, like political vacuums, is something which has huge consequences to the size of the fallout for us yet to fathom out much less process in a meaning way.

I think I'm just numb and stunned tonight.

OP posts:
JeSuisPoulet · 06/04/2020 23:56

Well, this is interesting - a study that suggests school closures are not as effective as suggested against COVID 19 www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/home However, it is hard to see how they come to this conclusion when social distancing. Dd's school has a large % of doctors and NHS workers - if I had an elderly person at home, diabetes/kidney failure etc in my household I certainly would not be taking her somewhere to have contact with potential vectors. It's late and dd has been up and chatting to me whilst I try to skim it, so happy to be pulled up if I have missed something here. To me this smacks of the eugenics idea again.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/04/2020 00:08

"I really feel for Nadine Dorries now too"

A poster was pushing the Fail's Barnier fantasy on MN last week 🤦🏻‍♀️
If the worst happens .... we may be correcting more such claims

BigChocFrenzy · 07/04/2020 00:15

"I just looked up Palmerstone's death though with you having said about it"

I immediately thought of him, as he was the last British PM to die in office.
I know he was about 80, none of the details

..... but about 150 years later the Uk still hasn't an automatic procedure to swing into action for such an event

I'd expect that the stand-in PM would call the Cabinet together to agree a new PM, hopefully not him
And hopefully of course that this stays just an academic discussion

RedToothBrush · 07/04/2020 00:19

Dd's school has a large % of doctors and NHS workers - if I had an elderly person at home, diabetes/kidney failure etc in my household I certainly would not be taking her somewhere to have contact with potential vectors

DS's school has the highest number of key worker children in the local authority. It has far more children coming in than any other school.

I am very relieved he isn't there for that reason as the potential risk of exposure is higher.

I am worried about an early return for schools as Denmark is talking about measures to come out of lock down soon and schools reopening is near the top of the list.

We are pretty safe and locked down in our own bubble for the time being. I have no desire to rush the schools back tbh.

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread