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Brexit

Westminstenders: All bets are off

974 replies

RedToothBrush · 18/03/2020 21:38

We are seeking an extension. Apparently. No prizes for guessing why.

There is no news but COVID news. And that's all there will be for a long time.

Enjoy your stockpile and your sunny uplands it brought.

Keep safe.

OP posts:
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RedToothBrush · 22/03/2020 16:19

Personally, I stopped going to the shops a week ago but I'm 63, so being more cautious than some others here ?
Only thing I've done in a week is school run

Do people feel worried about going to the supermarket? I'm wondering whether to go shopping for fresh food once a week, or to try to survive for a month or so on my Brexit tins and dried food stash. What are you all doing?

With DS and DH now home we've shut up shop. That's it. Hopefully at least a few weeks.

OP posts:
dontcallmelen · 22/03/2020 16:23

Thank you everybody for the congratulations, DGR I think she will give the name Corona a miss😂 she is a beautiful bundle of squishyness.

yoikes · 22/03/2020 16:26

dont congrats 💐

yoikes · 22/03/2020 16:28

Well.
We are gardening/washing cars/decorating/baking today.
Next door are having a kids party complete with bouncy castle.
Over the road have at least 20 family members there for lunch.
We live near a local park and I've seen multiple family groups going for walks - 3 generations of the family.
Ffs.

DGRossetti · 22/03/2020 16:31

DGR I think she will give the name Corona a miss

Shame Smile although in 9 months time, she might have had a lot of namesakes Grin

My "real" name, whilst not unheard of, was very unusual for my age (my DM again Grin). And then the year below me in school, and for a couple of years thereafter ... couldn't move for them.

Mind you, DM was (re) reading "Lord of the Rings" when she was in hospital with me, so things could have been worse. I don't think she was ever able to sell "Frodo" or "Rivendell" to my DF.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/03/2020 16:41

(paywall) How Boris Johnson changed his priorities: save lives first, and then salvage the economy

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-ten-days-that-shook-britain-and-changed-the-nation-for-ever-spz6sc9vb

The meeting that will change British society for a generation took place on the evening of Thursday, March 12.

That was when the strategic advisory group of experts (Sage in Whitehall parlance),
the government’s committee of scientists and medics,
gathered to examine modelling from experts at Imperial College London and other institutions.

The results were shattering.

A week earlier, councils had been warned to expect about 100,000 deaths from Covid-19.

Now Chris Whitty, the chief medical officer, and Sir Patrick Vallance, the chief scientific adviser, realised the estimates were wrong.

“Unmitigated, the death number was 510,000,”

a senior figure said.
“Mitigated we were told it was going to be 250,000.

Once you see a figure of take no further action and a quarter of a million people die, the question you ask is,
‘What action?’”

Another insider said:
“There was a collision between the science and reality.”
......
Dominic Cummings, the prime minister’s senior aide,
became convinced that Britain would be better able to resist a lethal second wave of the disease next winter if Whitty’s prediction that 60% to 80% of the population became infected was right and the UK developed “herd immunity”.

At a private engagement at the end of February, Cummings outlined the government’s strategy.

Those present say it was “herd immunity, protect the economy and if that means some pensioners die, too bad”.

At the Sage meeting on March 12, a moment now dubbed the “Domoscene conversion”,

Cummings changed his mind.
In this “penny-drop moment”, he realised he had helped set a course for catastrophe.

Until this point, the rise in British infections had been below the European average.
Now they were above it and on course to emulate Italy, where the picture was bleak.

A minister said: “Seeing what was happening in Italy was the galvanising force across government.”

By Friday, March 13, Cummings had become the most outspoken advocate of a tough crackdown.

“Dominic himself had a conversion,”
a senior Tory said.

“He’s gone from ‘herd immunity and let the old people die’,
to
‘let’s shut down the country and the economy.’”

Cummings had a “meeting of minds” with Matt Hancock, the health secretary, who wanted stronger action to prevent NHS hospitals being swamped.

Department of Health officials had impressed on Hancock that the death rate in Wuhan province was 3.4% when the hospitals were overrun and 0.7% elsewhere in China.

Johnson had also been queasy about the previous original approach.

“Boris hated the language of ‘herd immunity’ because it implied that it was OK for people to die,”
a senior source said.
“Matt hated the language because it implied we had given up.
You’ve got to fight.”
.....
But when Johnson gathered his key advisers in the cabinet room at 9.15am last Saturday
there was unanimity.

Whitty and Vallance explained that Britain had been four weeks behind Italy “and now we are closer”.

The two experts, together with Hancock and Cummings, all delivered to Johnson one message:
“Now is the moment to act.”

The prime minister agreed:
“We must work around the clock and take all necessary measures.”

One of those present said:
“The mood in the room was astonishing.
You could tell that something very significant had shifted.”
.....
Whitty and Vallance began their own press conferences at the end of the week amid concern that some of Johnson’s pronouncements

  • including a claim that they could “turn the tide” within 12 weeks -
were not grounded in evidence.

“Some of the experts are appalled by some of his claims,” a Whitehall source said.
.....
Another senior Tory said: “Boris is shellshocked.”
......
“Boris and his team are absolutely terrified because it will not be the NHS by end of this,”
a Whitehall source said.

“It will be the corona health service and will just be there to pump oxygen into patients.”

MPs speculate that there will be two big inquiries

  • an international one into the origins of the virus in China’s live animal “wet markets”;

and a second into the government’s preparations and policy decisions.

“If we end up like Italy in two weeks’ time and 30-year-old doctors are dropping dead, the government is going to be in big trouble,”
a Labour MP said.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/03/2020 16:41

.

Westminstenders: All bets are off
BigChocFrenzy · 22/03/2020 16:43

.....
Amid the frenzy of events, more thoughtful Tories have concluded that the decisions taken last week
will change three key aspects of the way the world works.
.......
One is the debate around globalisation.
Is Trump right that we just need to build bigger walls,
or is Gordon Brown right that global problems need global solutions?

The second is Socialism v The Free Market.

Large parts of the economy are going to be socialised after this.
I fear it leads to nationalists and socialists winning, to national socialism.”

The third fissure may yet be the worst.It’s the intergenerational question.

It is unsustainable to have people in their youth put their whole life on hold for months while the economy tanks to save a 91-year-old who would have died six months later anyway.”
< but it's rarely that clear >

Whatever the outcome, ministers have little doubt about the significance of the virus.
“It’s shaking the world,” one said.

HateIsNotGood · 22/03/2020 16:53

LQ not checked my local choice of beach today (and weather-wise today would have been good one) for population and Arcades, etc.

Very locally (2mi from beach), people are looking out for each other already, just a quick chat here and there setting up our informal networks for the inevitable 'lockdown' that will come as the outbreaks of CV will too.

Neighbours helping neighbours for those of us that don't do most Social Media. I haven't noticed any of the 2nd homers coming, which I think is very respectful of them. The ones immediately next door to me are very nice people that usuallly come regularly.

Rather strangely, my household is probably one of the more 'vulnerable' in the immediate vicinity now as in the past year many of the elderly have either died, needed to move to a residential care home or had to move because their LLs wanted to sell (v sad as the ladies did want to stay where they lived).

I'm a self-employed SM with an ASD DS18 and also rely on WTC to boost my income. I have a £300pcm Mortgage. Me and DS are used to self-isolation and now he's older he would be alright if I got so sick I couldn't get out of bed for a 2-3 days - longer than that and he'd need help, if I was hospitalized or died - it would be pretty difficult for him - but then that could happen anyway, without CV19.

Economically, I've been crushing the numbers for weeks and have minded our expenditure so that we could survive for 2-3 months on TCs and CHB without resorting to any CV19 state support.

On Friday, to my surprise and almost wtf relief, the best Customer I've had for years, has some different work for me instead of 'shutting shop' as I expected them to.

I dared to post here about it. Apparently I was "gloating". Maybe I didn't provide enough context or maybe it's because, so far, I think our Govt is doing a pretty good job in very uncertain times that would lend my post towards criticism.

And, right now, I still think the UK Govt is doing a good job - very responsive and 'stepping' the UK Population into the 'lockdown' that will happen, progressively, by the end of next week.

Good Luck and Best Wishes to Everyone....Everywhere.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/03/2020 17:08

Most of even the very elderly will survive, but many will suffer badly
especially if the number of cases exceeds NHS capacity

Tom Newton Dunnn@tnewtondunn*

Some startling new figures about how badly #COVID19 affects the elderly, just released by the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies.

44% of over 80s who catch it will be hospitalised.

And for all over-80s hospitalised, 20% will die.

Westminstenders: All bets are off
Westminstenders: All bets are off
RedToothBrush · 22/03/2020 17:16

DH is much much happier with today's figures.

Supports his theory that measures here are potentially starting to work.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 22/03/2020 17:18

Is David Davis another "silver lining" proponent ? Hmm

Sebastian Payne@SebastianEPayne

But former Brexit secretary David Davis tells the FT there is “no reason" to extend due to coronavirus:

“The unfortunate Covid-19 events will mean that cross-border traffic will be depressed and customs will be more than able to handle the traffic.”

Dmitry Grozoubinski@DmitryOpines

Quarantine David Davis from talking to journalists.

Do it now.
Do it forever.

Jason118 · 22/03/2020 17:22

No he's a fucking delusional idiot.

DGRossetti · 22/03/2020 17:29

The prime minister agreed: “We must work around the clock and take all necessary measures.”

Except we didn't did we Boris ? We didn't immediately shut anything down, and by continuing the "softly softly" approach we (well, you , actually, since you are in charge) encouraged the cavalier attitude we are still seeing today.

Seems (ironically) that Boris "all necessary measures" are similar to the "all possible" that Wilson ordered the UK to give to POTUS Johnson over Vietnam. When queried over it, he clarified "all possible except help"

Anyway, we are where we are. Speaking of which, I wonder if there's any data on how Covid is affected (or not) by any other vaccinations a patient has had ?

There's also a question about the measles immunity amnesia that appears to be a thing

asm.org/Articles/2019/May/Measles-and-Immune-Amnesia

Apileofballyhoo · 22/03/2020 17:35

Apparently people are now getting ill because they filled up with petrol

It's supposed to go in the car FFS !

DGR you can always be relied upon to make me laugh.

DGRossetti · 22/03/2020 17:44

Mind you, drinking petrol is about as intelligent as wolfing down quinine (or what you think is quinine, if I were unscrupulous I'd be flogging ground up chalk on eBay as "superQuinine" ...).

I thought we were all supposed to be wearing gloves when we pump fuel anyway ? Didn't they used to provide them at petrol stations ?

I would be a little intrigued if it turned out that covid was able to survive for any appreciable length of time after being exposed to benzene and other VOCs ...

HateIsNotGood · 22/03/2020 17:47

RTB - I've not listened to any new news yet today although I'll catch up later no doubt. What figures please your DH please?

DGRossetti · 22/03/2020 18:06

I know we're not allowed to say anything, but the number of people confusing "Quinoa" and "quinine" should be worrying. Luckily there won't be too many people jetting off to malarial climes with their H&B stash of Quinoa to protect them anytime soon.

Sigh, another missed money making scheme for the scrupulous.

BoreOfWhabylon · 22/03/2020 18:27

On the subject of quinine, I'm really concerned that Trump some people are seizing on this as the magic bullet against covid and will start self medicating with supplies obtained via internet.

It is a really dangerous drug. It affects the electrical impulses in the heart. It can lead to sudden cessation of the heartbeat. People taking it without close medical supervision can quite literally suddenly drop dead.

BoreOfWhabylon · 22/03/2020 18:28

To be clear, I don't mean Trump will self-medicate with quinine, but he's set the hare running.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/03/2020 18:34

How NHS personnel are thanked for their service

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/22/nhs-paramedic-evicted-from-home-for-fear-he-would-spread-covid-19

A paramedic has described being evicted from his home because his landlady was concerned that he could spread Covid-19 at the property, raising further concerns that medical staff are being stigmatised because of their contact with the virus.

Joseph Hoar, a paramedic for South Western ambulance service, tweeted on Saturday night that he had been asked to leave his home by text message within 24 hours
because the owner was “super nervous about having someone from the NHS here”.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 22/03/2020 18:35

Congrats dont
Angela Merkel in quarantine now. A dr who gave her an injection on Friday has tested positive.

GnomicGnu · 22/03/2020 18:36

RTB are we actually far enough in to the increased measures to have any real effect on the numbers yet?

BigChocFrenzy · 22/03/2020 18:39

Germany is banning being with more than 1 other person
(except family, or for those working on COVID matters)

Merkel in precautionary isolation after her doctor tested positive - he saw her on Friday

BoreOfWhabylon · 22/03/2020 18:44

BCF on the face of it the paramedic story is dreadful but I think there's not enough detail to outright condemn the landlady.

The paramedic might be a lodger in her house, so they would be sharing the same space and she might be in a 'vulnerable' group herself or be caring for someone who is.