Gove: "Post-Brexit talks: UK prepared to walk away in June if no progress"

[Miljea]

BBC News

Is this the Brexit you voted for, Leavers??

Seriously? Threatening the EU?

Text: "The UK has warned the EU it will walk away from trade talks in June unless there is a "broad outline" of a deal.

Michael Gove told MPs the UK wanted to strike a "comprehensive free trade agreement" in 10 months.

But the government would not accept any alignment with EU laws as the EU is demanding, with Mr Gove adding: "We will not trade away our sovereignty."

The EU has already set out its priorities ahead of the formal start of the talks on Monday."

One would almost think No Deal was precisely what we're heading for....

Maybe someone will come from the other side and tell us, in italics why this is great news.

I think it will cost more, but that is what you want, so OK.

We can't airfreight everything, and I personally wouldn't want lettuces that were put in a container and were at sea for two weeks.

@Peregrina

EU membership costs the net contributing countries of the EU every single year, and the CAP itself costs too. If that's what they want, OK, but the majority of those who voted chose the leave EU option in the referendum.

The UK Exchequer hands over billions in tariff costs charged on its imports to the EU.

I don't want lettuces put in a container and transported for 2 weeks either. I'm happy to pay any increased costs. The price is cheap compared to the alternatives in my view.

In 2018, 11% of UK food imports came from RoW, while 30% came from the EU. Some products are almost solely imported from the EU (olives, for instance). There may be an argument that it would be better to import olives from Turkey, Tunisia, Morocco, Chile or China rather than Spain/Italy, but it's hard to see what it might be. Increased distance means increased prices.

Making food imports more complex, with more paperwork and checks, is likely to lead to waste and shortages.

The EU has explained several times that its trade agreements with Canada, etc. cannot be used as a model for future trade with the UK because of the distances involved.

The EU is v wary that the UK is planning to become a low standards competitor on its doorstep, something that Canada, etc. won't do because they are not on the EU's doorstep and are thus less direct competitors.

Michel Barnier also pointed out this week that a Canada-style deal is not an option due to the huge difference in volume of trade.

What is also being gently noted is that most other countries the EU trades with have not lied and reneged on their commitments, which the UK has done and is shaping up to do again.

@AuldAlliance

Another gentle note: The UK Government's commitment and duty is to the electorate and the manifesto it was elected on, not to the EU. The EU offered a Canada style trade deal, but now it doesn't want one?

The EU is wary of a competitor on its doorstep. That is the EU's problem, not the UK's. The UK however is not going to become a low standards economy, but like any independent country it will not be accepting the standards of a competitor (beyond those required of any country exporting to another) nor its court's rulings.

We import fresh food from all over the world

Almost all of it seasonal fruit.

There would be plenty of meat from Argentina and Brazil, and sod the rainforest, but dairy will be a problem.

@Lilyladles The EU is wary of a competitor on its doorstep. That is the EU's problem, not the UK's

You seem to be confusing the word 'problem' with 'position'.

@Jason118

I'm not confusing anything.

@Mockersisrightasusual

Why will it be a problem? Is the EU going to stop selling its produce in the UK?

The EU offered a Canada style trade deal, but now it doesn't want one?

Tusk suggested the EU was offering a Canada+++ deal, but that involved NI remaining within the SM and CU. The current UK gvmt's stance on customs checks in NI is unclear and contradictory and it has been revealed that they are looking to get around what they signed up for.
BJ telling NI businesses they could throw customs paperwork in the bin was perhaps intended for their ears only, but the EU is listening carefully to the UK's domestic rhetoric.

Canada got its deal by aligning itself in various ways with EU standards.
The UK has recently indicated it's not necessarily prepared to do that and the fact that the LPF requirement was shifted from the withdrawal agreement to the political declaration (non-binding) is not reassuring.

The EU will still sell us stuff. It'll be more expensive for us and more difficult to transact for both parties. So where's the benefit?

Lilyladies

Norway has rejected EU membership twice, NOT Switzerland, which has joined Schengen and adopted enough EU rules to be part of the SM.
Norway, as part of EFTA is in the CU and both countries have agreements on FOM.

EU goods will become more expensive as tariffs will be applied or we will get a cheaper version and of course vice versa, it will be the end of any foreign car manufacture in the UK and the supply industry jobs that go with it.... you can add in Airbus too.

The uk consumer will still buy EU goods because there is no alternative, people will want German cars and other EU goods but there is plenty of alternatives to what the UK produces.

The UK being a rival to the EU means zero co-op on anything at all, security, criminality, science, technology.

I ve always maintained that brexit is an economic opportunity for the EU.

The problem is friction. Any delays can ruin fresh produce. Extra paperwork and time adds to costs. Refrigeration costs loads, and with the price of deisel set to rocket, this can be a problem.

We will not starve, but we shall be paying more for our food.

@Mockersisrightasusual

The UK isn't going to cause any friction, and it's not in the EU's interest to either.

We won't be paying billions for EU membership, and food is more expensive because of the CAP.

@Lilyladles you are Mysterytripagain and I claim my £5

Norway isn't in the Customs Union but is in the EEA, Schengen and does have FoM. The lack of being in the CU means that they don't have a frictionless border with Sweden.

The checks will be on the EU side. Dairy is very fragile in transit.

@jasjas1973

You’re right about Norway rejecting EU membership twice. My mistake. Switzerland is not a member of the EU, but it does have bilateral agreements with it that presumably suit it more than EU membership as it has no plans to join the EU, having previously rejected even EEA membership.

Consumers will have a choice … they can pay increased prices for tariffed goods from the EU or they can opt for cheaper goods from elsewhere. Do you think it might be a little arrogant to goods from elsewhere will be a “cheaper version”? Car manufacturing is dependent on far more factors than Brexit and it's on the decline in mainland Europe too.

And as for Airbus …

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-51047264

I’m sure the UK consumer will still buy EU goods when they are of a suitable quality and price, as they will products from the rest of the world. The same goes for consumers in the rest of the EU as far as UK goods go. We all have a choice and that’s good for innovation and business. Neither side should fear competition.

If the EU chooses not to cooperate in mutually agreeable fields, it will be the EU’s loss, but I hope Brexit will be an economic opportunity for the EU. It is certainly one for the UK.

@AuldAlliance

The UK Government is committed to having no physical border between Northern Ireland and Ireland and to the Common Travel Area. There is no suggestion otherwise. What is unclear? It’s the EU which has threatened a hard border. That much is clear.

Leo “I am the EU” Varadkar has also been vanquished by the Irish electorate, and has not been rewarded by the EU for supporting the EU in the Brexit negotiations in the budget negotiations. We’ll see how the new Taoiseach wants to play his hand soon enough.

NI voted to remain in the EU as we know, but it seems NI wants it both ways. It wants to remain in the UK, in the single market, and wants no paperwork, no hard border and no changes. Personally, I’d have told the EU to get stuffed regarding its demands on NI and a whole lot more. Johnson and his team have far more patience with the EU than I do.

Canada has not agreed to free movement or the jurisdiction of the ECJ across its entire economy or a level playing field, nor has Japan or South Korea.

The UK Government renegotiated the WA, as was its right. I am somewhat reassured by that.

Jasjas,

You make a statement saying we will still buy eu goods (such as German cars) but the EU has ‘plenty of alternatives’ to our goods? Is there any evidence for this or is it something you would like to be true?

To be honest, although we like our German luxury cars, the automotive sector is overcrowded and we have plenty of alternatives (Teslas seem v popular around where I live, for instance). On the other hand, it is hard to replicate what Lloyd’s of London do, or some of our precision engineering.

I really would like a good deal with the EU but points-based immigration, high salaries for real experts (not economists!!) and investment in infrastructure could make us very competitive even without one.

None of the major European economies are dictatorships and, if we make goods the EU wants, they will buy them.

On Feb 27th, Gove said that the gvmt would uphold the WA protocol on NI, meaning there will be a border down the Irish Sea.
10 minutes later, he told the DUP there would be no border down the Irish Sea.

This is unclear.

I appreciate that those who voted for the current gvmt may think that in reneging on promises made as part of an international agreement, it is merely doing what its domestic voters wish and that that is therefore perfectly acceptable.
But domestic voters are not the only ones towards whom the UK has obligations.
Signing a WA and then trying to wriggle out of its terms is not renegotiating. Nor is it a good beginning to hugely complex negotiations in which the UK is not in a position of strength and some degree of reliability is needed.

EU farmers and suppliers and manufacturers will still have the whole continent to trade with after Brexit.
The EU is signing trade deals with countries regularly.
They may make a few cents less than they did selling to the UK
but they will still be in business

UK farmers and traders and manufacturers on the other hand ....

50,000 customs clearance clerks ......

I have no doubt that in time (how many years did Rich-Smugg predict?); Britain's balance sheet, post Brexit, will look healthy.

The issue is that 90% of the wealth will be 5%'s pocket; while the rest of us are fighting for zero hour work in unregulated jobs.

As for us making quality products that the EU will pay out for; no evidence of that just yet, is there?

Just out of interest the top food/drink products we import from the EU are in order :-

Beef from Ireland
Wine from France
Pork from Denmark
Potatoes from the Netherlands and Belgium

So none of these things can't be grown/produced in the UK apart from the French wine but I can live with that being more expensive as I tend to buy more new world wine.

The EU want to impose all the restrictions on us so I feel it is the EU that is threatening the U.K.

They initially offered a Canada style deal but have now reneged on that and want more control over the U.K.

The EU want to impose all the restrictions on us so I feel it is the EU that is threatening the U.K.
If you are not a member of a club you do not get the benefits.
You could term it a restriction
but if you do not pay the membership fee and abide by the rules of a club it will not let you in.