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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Mask is Slipping

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/02/2020 05:30

This week has seen the department of the Chancellor who launched a 50p piece, the serious contemplation of a tin pot bridge, the rebirth of eugenics as a subject for cabinet, the announcement of the end of the BBC as we know it, the cabinet chanting after the PM in a way Orwell would be proud of, suppression of a report into trade deals which dares to mention the effect of distance and geography, worrying signs of an ever growing rift with Europe over negotiations for a deal, an appointment which starts to make our membership of the ECHR look very dodgy and there have been rather a lot of floods which so far seemed to have escaped the attention of those in London busy in their own swamp.

It's becoming apparent very quickly just how Trump like our new government are and how they want the UK to emulate the very worst aspects of America.

We are falling fast and its not looking like it will be pretty.

All we need is a major global issue to test our national resilience and the incompetence will truly be laid bare for us all to see... But not necessarily speak of. Such us the way it works.

Brexit Britain is not a nice looking prospect.

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BigChocFrenzy · 27/02/2020 18:51

Um, iirc France, Netherlands, Germany .... have each been recruiting and training hundreds of extra officers for the last 2-3 years
and at least in Germany we think the WA has given the EU only just enough time to do this properly

Is that UK Border Force Officers being recruited ?
Qualifications are 2 A levels,
or for an assistant Border Officer, 2 GCSEs in Maths & English

Prerequisites:
British citizen who must have been a UK resident for at least 5 years

Have to ensure no disloyal UK expats sneak back home into such jobs

https://www.prospects.ac.uk/job-profiles/border-force-officer

yoikes · 27/02/2020 18:51

Just voted in the labour leadership election!
2 lots of votes in this house for starmer and murray

Peregrina · 27/02/2020 18:53

I wonder if HMRC, who I once worked for, will call me out of retirement?

DGRossetti · 27/02/2020 18:57

I wonder if HMRC, who I once worked for, will call me out of retirement?

They won't because Gove is spouting bollocks. QED. Or Res ipsos loquitor ...

HesterThrale · 27/02/2020 18:58

More cloud cuckoo land from Gove. What are they playing at?

mobile.twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1232985470797258752

Westminstenders: The Mask is Slipping
BigChocFrenzy · 27/02/2020 19:16

Adding to my mood, thick snow everywhere and still falling
We haven't had a single flake of snow all winter until now, 3 days before the meteorological Spring Confused

"the time is out of joint"

< whinges >

MashedPotatoBrainz · 27/02/2020 19:25

Gove has just committed govt to recruiting and training 50000 customs officers within months

I thought training to be a customs officer was a specialised degree course, not currently available in UK universities. How's he planning on doing that then?

BigChocFrenzy · 27/02/2020 19:43

"Gove has just committed govt to recruiting and training 50000 customs officers within months"

I'm assuming that is 5,000 - which still sounds, um, ambitious

"I thought training to be a customs officer was a specialised degree course"

HMRC job ref is very coy about precisely what training is involved
If the govt so wishes, it's likely to be pretty quick & dirty

targetjobs.co.uk/careers-advice/job-descriptions/279199-customs-officer-job-description#training

Of course, they have to be recruited and vetted for any unBritish sentiments,
which will take additional months - maybe longer than the training

Going by previous number-fiddling of this govt, that 5,000 may be the total of new Border Force and Customs officers

  • and still won't be reached, at least not with properly trained officers who know what they are doing
BigChocFrenzy · 27/02/2020 19:47

Why has Boris Johnson disappeared from view? He’s betting you don’t care

I still don't think this is any cunning masterplan of his or even of Cummings
It's just his innate lazy arse avoiding work

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/27/boris-johnson-mop-no-10-media-public

RedToothBrush · 27/02/2020 19:49

Peter Foster @pmdfoster
So. The UK's negotiating mandate is out, setting terms for future UK-EU partnership....livelihoods depend on all this, so here's the crazy part - the government admits it will do the economic assessments after the fact - see Para 12 1/Thread

Crazy, because you'd think that the government might have "invited contributions" before emarking on this journey.

I now understand from source, there will be NO IMPACT ASSESSMENTS... /2

Which perhaps isn't that surprising, since we know from the October 2018 assessments that were forced out of the @theresa_may government, they are all negative.

This is NOT about relitigation of #Brexit. It is about taking an 'evidence-based' approach, about listening. /3

Of late, I have spent a lot of time talking to business groups - across all the sectors - and the groups, all with different issues, share one thing in common. A quiet, seething, livid rage. They fizz with frustration. It is quite remarkable to behold. /4

I still don't really understand why the Conservative, the alleged party of business, is so content to become the party of "f*ck business", to borrow a phrase - and why they don't fear the reputational risk more, or the impact on their new 'red wall' votebank. /5

Today, I've been watching the official statesments of business and lobby groups drop into my inbox. These are the official, chlorine-washed versions of what they feel able to say....so here are a few. The 'red' highlights are obviously my own. /6

Let's start with shipping, at random. It just came first. We need to protect value of trade with close partners, we are not convinced UK govt negotiatiors *recognises this reality".

Do I need to decode that statement? WILL YOU PEOPLE LISTEN TO US? /7

Let's stick with transtport, see what Aviation groups ADS says?

We need "pragmatic arrangements" ...we are "disappointed" the govt is not seeking more ambitious approach to aviation safety, says policy director @cullasys Disappointed. /8

More to follow...

Westminstenders: The Mask is Slipping
Westminstenders: The Mask is Slipping
Westminstenders: The Mask is Slipping
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RedToothBrush · 27/02/2020 19:52

Peter Foster @pmdfoster
What about @AllieRenison of @The_IoD , the bosses group? More disappointment. They were "hoping for a more balanced approach on alignment and divergence" - oh the glory the understatement. Only a quarter of IOD members reckon there is time to sign and implement a deal. /9

What about the British Retail Consortium @the_brc - whose member have shelves to stack? Customers to serve? UK govt must to "much further" in its ambitions to avoid "disruption at the border". They warn of proposals "lack clarity" on the most basic stuff - like VAT. /10

What about @cbicarolyn of the CBI? She warns about "red tape" and urges govt to let biz "provide the insight that is essential for the UK to prosper outside the EU.”

English translation? Please, please listen to us...pretty please. /11

More...

Westminstenders: The Mask is Slipping
Westminstenders: The Mask is Slipping
Westminstenders: The Mask is Slipping
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RedToothBrush · 27/02/2020 19:54

Peter Foster @pmdfoster
Not strictly a trade group, and obviously more partisan, but here's what Scottish Govt has to say - UK govt strategy sets "extraordinarily low bar" and cd cost economy £9bn-12.7bn by 2030, compared with EU membership /12
news.gov.scot/news/uk-mandate-will-hit-scotlands-economy

This will no doubt be condemned as more carping, more endless relitigation of #brexit...but that is not what this is about.

Brexit is happening, course it is, but it is remarkable to listen to the roll-call of despair from those who employ folks, pay mortages etc. /13

Because the hardest hit will not be the banks and big businesses, it will be the 250,000 SMEs doing customs forms for the first time; the small biz owners with cashflows hit by the inability to defer VAT payments...and in time, the politics of that will be interesting. /14

It's easy to demonise big business, harder to do that to the little guys.

But as we embark on this great adventure next week, the UK govt will hold a consultation on these impacts "later this sprin".

Does anyone seriously think they'll listen? ENDS

Westminstenders: The Mask is Slipping
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borntobequiet · 27/02/2020 20:23

Well everyone needs to take to the streets PDQ. Farmers, business people (large and small, manufacturing, financial, commercial), medical and education professionals, the self employed, people in retail, people in leisure and hospitality, everyone.
Because with this lot in charge we’re all fucked. And really, we all know it.

ListeningQuietly · 27/02/2020 20:35

A bit out of touch and V V tired
BUT
I thought that Evan Davies on R4PM
covered the Heathrow judgement really well tonight
his interviewee picked up the nuances
nothing was brushed over

there is hope

BigChocFrenzy · 27/02/2020 20:35

How did British Indians become so prominent in the Conservative party?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/27/how-did-british-indians-become-so-prominent-in-the-conservative-party

So how and why have their descendants become so prominent on the Tory frontbenches?

The answer begins in 1895, with the creation of the British East Africa Protectorate.
British officials envisioned the protectorate, which occupied roughly the same area as modern-day Kenya, as the “America of the Hindu”, a settler-colonial project to be led by Indians on behalf of the British.
..----
Functioning as a subordinate ruling class, Indians in east Africa enjoyed success in business, finance and the professions throughout the colonial period, and gained significant control over the economy.
.....
Functioning as a subordinate ruling class, Indians in east Africa enjoyed success in business, finance and the professions throughout the colonial period, and gained significant control over the economy.

By the time Kenya won its independence in 1963, Indians – who accounted for less than 3% of the population – owned more than two thirds of the country’s private non-agricultural assets.
....
The Tories have now managed to extend their appeal beyond the “two time” migrants by finding common cause in a project of Islamophobia.

Supported by the Indian government and its far-right ruling party, the BJP, the Conservatives have exploitedd^ a sharp rise in Hindu nationalism within the British Indian community to play Hindu, Sikh, Jain and Muslim communities off against one another.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/02/2020 20:35

How did British Indians become so prominent in the Conservative party?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/27/how-did-british-indians-become-so-prominent-in-the-conservative-party

So how and why have their descendants become so prominent on the Tory frontbenches?

The answer begins in 1895, with the creation of the British East Africa Protectorate.
British officials envisioned the protectorate, which occupied roughly the same area as modern-day Kenya, as the “America of the Hindu”, a settler-colonial project to be led by Indians on behalf of the British.
..----
Functioning as a subordinate ruling class, Indians in east Africa enjoyed success in business, finance and the professions throughout the colonial period, and gained significant control over the economy.
.....
Functioning as a subordinate ruling class, Indians in east Africa enjoyed success in business, finance and the professions throughout the colonial period, and gained significant control over the economy.

By the time Kenya won its independence in 1963, Indians – who accounted for less than 3% of the population – owned more than two thirds of the country’s private non-agricultural assets.
....
The Tories have now managed to extend their appeal beyond the “two time” migrants by finding common cause in a project of Islamophobia.

Supported by the Indian government and its far-right ruling party, the BJP, the Conservatives have exploitedd^ a sharp rise in Hindu nationalism within the British Indian community to play Hindu, Sikh, Jain and Muslim communities off against one another.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/02/2020 20:48

With 4 Cabinet Ministers of Indian ethnic origin, this substantial group of Tory ethnic minority voters has been seriously overlooked by political analysts, imo,
in contrast to the attention often given to Labour and its ethnic minority voters

They are usefully distibuted geographically and have enabled Tory wins in some seats

BigChocFrenzy · 27/02/2020 21:15

Uk govt: "The UK’s Approach to Negotiations"

The UK's negotiating mandate, following the EU mandate published a couple of days ago

I've skimmed through the Uk one - embarassing contrast:
the delusion is strong with this one

"It is a vision of a relationship based on friendly cooperation between sovereign equals"
That's the problem:
Brexiters think the Uk is equally strong as the EU and that its negotiating position is as strong

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/868874/TheeFutureRelationshippwiththee_EU.pdf

BigChocFrenzy · 27/02/2020 21:56

🤯
Joe Mayess@Joe*Mayess__
_
Andrew Neil tells @MakeUKK_ manufacturing conference that 10 Downing Street is happy to see the end of complex, cross-border supply chains after Brexit.

`Those days are coming to an end', @afneil says

Says govt. sees rise of 3D printing, more domestic sourcing as the future

< that future is not in the neighbourhood of 2021, at least not for a complex end product containing a vast number of components, e.g a mass production car
My employer has used 3D printing for a few prototype components for several years now, but it'll be many years before that complex process could replace all the conventional supply chains >

TatianaLarina · 27/02/2020 22:07

Ya gotta put the alternatives in place before ya pull the plug on the supply chains BJ.

Clavinova · 27/02/2020 22:29

In the 1960s her parents immigrated to the UK and settled in Hertfordshire, several years before President Idi Amin came to power and expelled Ugandan Asians in 1972

"Milton Obote's government had pursued a policy of "Africanisation" which included policies targeted at Ugandan Asians.The 1968 Committee on the "Africanisation in Commerce and Industry", for example, had made far-reaching Indophobic proposals and a system of work permits and trade licenses was introduced in 1969 to restrict the role of non-citizen Indians in economic and professional activities.Nevertheless, Amin's policies represented a significant acceleration"...

Peregrina · 27/02/2020 23:02

So perhaps Patel's parents saw which way the wind was blowing and got out sometime in the 1960s. It does not alter the fact that they weren't refugees fleeing from Amin with 48 hours notice. Nor does it alter the fact that her own policies will prevent people like her parents coming now. Let us hope that there aren't any more would be Amin's around, or it will be a poor look out for them if they want to come to Britain.

Clavinova · 27/02/2020 23:06

"the Obote regime in Uganda wanted to boot out most of its Asian population."

1968 "We know that the Uganda Government, in pursuit of a policy of Africanisation, are considering legislation which could be introduced at short notice, the effect of which, by withdrawing all permits and renewing them only on a selective basis, would be designed to reduce the Asian population of Uganda from 80 000 to some 20 000 over a period of 5 years. It is understood that the Uganda Government intend that about 20 000 of these people should leave Uganda within 6 months of the introduction of the legislation."^

"By the late 1960s it is clear that the Black Spot had been placed on the Asian minority of East Africa."

"In February 1968 Ugandan President Milton Obote had warned that "We will keep non-Ugandan citizens at our pleasure but if, for national interests, that pleasure runs out, they will have to go to their countries." In a despatch dated February 24 1970 The Times of London wrote of the growing fears of Asian non-citizens in Uganda."

"According to the report Asians feared that the requirement for permits "for non-citizens to hold jobs or own shops will force them out of the country." The newspaper reported that the Asians were already subject to severe discrimination with Asian traders "barred by the Government in trading in 34 commodities, including everyday items such as groceries."

"the ‘Africanisation' process is expected to be applied more systematically than it has been in Kenya.There is a schedule for ousting, district-by-district, all non-Ugandan citizens."

RedToothBrush · 27/02/2020 23:09

How does 3D printing produce pharmacueticals?
How does 3D printing grow crops for processed food?
How does 3D printing help the service industry which is the bulk of our economy?

But above all
How does 3D printing produce the raw materials needed for 3D printing?

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Clavinova · 27/02/2020 23:15

Priti Patel claims her family were persecuted in Uganda - I can believe that from the evidence above. Not convinced Simon Schama knows his stuff after all ["Idi Amin's anti-Asian campaign didnt begin until the 70s"]

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