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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Mask is Slipping

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/02/2020 05:30

This week has seen the department of the Chancellor who launched a 50p piece, the serious contemplation of a tin pot bridge, the rebirth of eugenics as a subject for cabinet, the announcement of the end of the BBC as we know it, the cabinet chanting after the PM in a way Orwell would be proud of, suppression of a report into trade deals which dares to mention the effect of distance and geography, worrying signs of an ever growing rift with Europe over negotiations for a deal, an appointment which starts to make our membership of the ECHR look very dodgy and there have been rather a lot of floods which so far seemed to have escaped the attention of those in London busy in their own swamp.

It's becoming apparent very quickly just how Trump like our new government are and how they want the UK to emulate the very worst aspects of America.

We are falling fast and its not looking like it will be pretty.

All we need is a major global issue to test our national resilience and the incompetence will truly be laid bare for us all to see... But not necessarily speak of. Such us the way it works.

Brexit Britain is not a nice looking prospect.

OP posts:
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lonelyplanetmum · 17/02/2020 06:53

PMK

Thank you always to RTB. Hope all are ok in the floods.

HoneysuckIejasmine · 17/02/2020 06:56

Pmk thanks Red.

Cupofteaandtoilet · 17/02/2020 07:04

Thank you. Place marking with a heavy heart. Could really do with some political good news soon.

lonelyplanetmum · 17/02/2020 07:44

Sorry this isn't good news but
With regard to RTBs comment about the rebirth of eugenics as a subject for cabinet..

It's so Weird.

Tinfoil hat warning but Cummings advertised for (and then employed) weirdos.

It's like they are thrashing around for any type of new weird thing to replace manufacturing and financial services which are being eroded by cavalier indifference.

I googled gene editing etc and weird Yougov surveys popped up. It looks as if in two years the number of Brits who would support editing their children's genes to increase their intelligence has risen from 23% to 83%. That can't be right surely? ! I'd rather not live in interesting times please.

2018 here:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/science/articles-reports/2018/10/10/most-brits-say-gene-editing-reduce-risk-disease-sh

2020: Do Brits think gene editing should be allowed to make people more intelligent

83% Should be allowed
7% Should not be allowed
10 % Don't know

2020 survey

TheElementsOdeToJoy · 17/02/2020 07:54

Thanks RTB these “interesting times” just keep on coming don’t they? Sad

TokyoSushi · 17/02/2020 07:56

PMK thank you!

rosy71 · 17/02/2020 07:58

Were the cabinet really chanting? When I read that somewhere, I assumed it was a joke.

lonelyplanetmum · 17/02/2020 08:10

You'd think everyone would be tired of the interesting times by now.

If our the backbone of our new economy is gene editing whose children will be the first guinea pigs?

A. Chanting cabinet members' progeny ..
B. Children of the new Northern Tory fan base.
C. Descendants of the pro EU elite (as part of their re-education programme).

DrBlackbird · 17/02/2020 08:12

PMK. Like being in a tiny car slowly but surely skidding towards a lorry and knowing impact will be head first.

mrslaughan · 17/02/2020 08:16

I follow these threads still - and want to thank everyone for their contributions.
@DrBlackbird love you comparison with a car crash - that's exactly how I feel

AutumnCrow · 17/02/2020 08:18

The chanting Cabinet. Dear god.

RedToothBrush · 17/02/2020 08:37

Dr Adam Rutherford @adamrutherford
I can see this damn Andrew Sabisky situation is not going away. I have written two books about Eugenics and race, teach it, at the place where it was founded, in the lab named after its creator, Francis Galton, where I was an Undergrad and still am a Fellow, so, some thoughts 1/n

2/n like Cummings, he appears to be bewitched by science, without having made the effort to understand the areas he is invoking, nor it’s history. Here’s a para from #HowToArgueWithARacist

The argument that humans are susceptible to selective breeding as in agriculture (as expressed by Dawkins) is not incorrect, though it is simplistic to the point of being almost meaningless. 3/n

The enhancement of specific traits in animals also results in unforeseen and awful side-effects as a result of polygenic effects, pleiotropy and the general melee of the genome. 4/n

His presence at the Intelligence conference held on UCL grounds is problematic, as it is mostly attended by scientifically semi-literate cranks, actual white supremacists, and utter fools, whose self style heretical pose masks not just weirdness, but ignorance and bigotry 5/n

These views on IQ. Well, there are differences on average between different populations, however 1) these numbers are not at all right and appear to be derived (I think) from fraudulent research by the actual racist Richard Lynn, the figurehead of this crank movement. 6/n

2) though cognitive abilities are most certainly heritable, this confused statement (and others) indicates a failure to understand this concept. Attainment gaps are far better explained by environmental differences than genetic
(This is all in my book btw)

I could go on about the scientific illiteracy much further, but the moral repugnance is overwhelming. Though the U.K. never had a formal Eugenics policy, despite the idea being founded here, in my lab, IQ was used in the involuntary sterilisation of 10s of 1000s in the US 8/n

Along with disabilities, homosexuality, alcohol abuse, mental health problems, vague criteria that we now know are highly polygenic and highly environmentally constrained 9/n

I see Toby Young and others are now invoking free speech as a defence of Sabisky’s views. Fine, but that doesn’t green light him into advising government with scientifically incoherent and ahistorical opinions. 10/n

I am all for scientifically minded peopel advising government. In fact I am all for scientists advising government. From this perspective, Sabisky and indeed Cummings look bewitched by science without doing the legwork 11/n

Instead this resembles the marshalling of misunderstood or specious science into a political ideology. The history here is important, because this process is exactly what happened at the birth of scientific racism and the birth of eugenics. 12/n

‘I’ll know my song well before I start singing’. If Cummings wants some real scientific advice, he should ask scientists. Cos it’s a hard rain's a-gonna fall 13/13

Note this sentence and remember it:
indeed Cummings look bewitched by science without doing the legwork

It's how the next 5 years are going to go.

Westminstenders: The Mask is Slipping
Westminstenders: The Mask is Slipping
OP posts:
prettybird · 17/02/2020 08:38

Squirrel cat that doesn't understand that he's not supposed to have his tail up when he's happy Confused

The amazingly prescient series Years and Years - which only aired last year (on the BBC Wink) - had the BBC shut down but finished with it being reinstated. I might be pissed off at the BBC for some of its coverage, of both the Indyref and Brexit (and will no longer watch Question Time as it gave anti-EU MEPs such a platform, while never inviting a pro-EU UK MEP Angry) but I am still happy to pay the licence fee. I have to disagree fundamentally with BigChoc (don't often do that) on that.

Expect many more challenges to the basics of UK society while Dominic Cummings the Government makes the most of its majority and can pretend that such actions are evidence of regaining our sovrentee Hmm This may well include withdrawing from the EHRC - as we've predicted on here - despite it having nothing to do with EU Hmm

Brexit is so not over Sad ....the fall out has only just started Sad

Westminstenders: The Mask is Slipping
wherearemychickens · 17/02/2020 08:45

Rosy, yes, unfortunately Johnson lead a call and response and the cabinet duly chanted back to him - 'how many hospitals are we going to build' '40' etc. Truly depressing.

NomDeDieu · 17/02/2020 08:47

PMK

RedToothBrush · 17/02/2020 08:50

David Henig @davidheniguk
The UK government is today arguing that the EU is wrong to be asking for what they're asking in trade talks. Like our voice should still matter in determining EU trade policy... and wrong on so many levels (from news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-eu-trade-demands-are-ridiculous-and-unreasonable-11935283?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter ) 1

Most basic point - in a preferential trade deal both sides set their conditions for reduced or zero tariffs. There are always terms and conditions for this, and the larger player typically sets more stringent conditions. So that's the EU 2/

The UK's argument also displays a lack of knowledge on the heavy demands the EU placed on the likes of Canada and Japan in trade talks - for example for Japan in removing non-tariff barriers before talks...3/
mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSBRE9AI0HP20131119?__twitter_impression=true
Japan not ready yet to pass non-tariff barrier test: EU trade chief

Then the current direction of travel in EU trade policy towards more robust implementation of deals through the creation of a Chief Trade Enforcement Officer. The UK saying "why tough on us?" could be seen in their eyes as why were they so soft before? 4/
ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_19_6748
Commission reinforces tools to ensure Europe's interests in international trade

The UK government is also saying sometimes that we don't want a special deal, but at other times that we do - most obvious example being on financial services (previous Chancellor of course) 5/
mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2050YM?__twitter_impression=true
Britain and EU split over financial market access

The EU will also be aware that virtually all UK stakeholders (business, consumers, devolved administrations) are asking for something more than a skinny FTA, e.g. this from SMMT. Right now with little effect, but this might change even this year. 6/
www.smmt.co.uk/industry-topics/europe-and-international-trade/delivering-automotive-priorities-for-an-uk-eu-trade-deal/
Delivering automotive priorities for an UK/EU trade deal

Another reason this is not a normal trade negotiation - one part of the UK will follow EU rules. The skinnier the trade deal, the greater the trade friction between Great Britain and Northern Ireland. This isn't well appreciated across government 7/
www.rte.ie/amp/1115361/?__twitter_impression=true
UK will not have a border in the Irish Sea - Lewis

It is even doubtful that UK ministers are fully aware of the impact of those extra checks coming from a skinny trade deal with the EU. They're not currently listening too much, but again that may change in the coming months. 8/
amp.ft.com/content/b726868a-4f53-11ea-95a0-43d18ec715f5?emailId=5e4a17bf0c34550004f9ccd3&segmentId=22011ee7-896a-8c4c-22a0-7603348b7f22&__twitter_impression=true
Retailers say Brexit border friction will hit food supplies

Economic relations between neighbours are also typically deeper than those with far-away countries - and this is a global phenomenon. Whether through Customs Unions or deeper than usual FTAs. The EU is typical in this regard. 9/

It is also noticeable that the UK is pointing to the EU's distant relations, but nothing on the doorstep. That's presumably because there's no EU-European country trade agreement the UK government likes. Now who's cherry picking? 10/

Whether the EU is right or wrong to behave in the way they do regarding trade relations is a fair debate - for them. Not for the UK. We left. It's like concerning ourselves with Member State competences - an issue no longer of concern to us. 11/

Basically the UK is picking a pointless fight on a subject we can't win, rather than doing something more productive like building domestic consensus or rebuilding friendships in the EU and elsewhere. And yes, we do want a special trade agreement. That should be obvious 12/ end

Again we are suffering from a bad case of those (rich people) in charge wanting simple solutions without thinking through issues or even understanding the problem.

This supposed higher IQ in rich people is really wasted and really isn't what it's cracked up to be when those people are lazy fuckwits too.

Westminstenders: The Mask is Slipping
OP posts:
yoikes · 17/02/2020 08:50

Pmk

CrunchyCarrot · 17/02/2020 08:52

Johnson lead a call and response and the cabinet duly chanted back to him - 'how many hospitals are we going to build' '40' etc. Truly depressing.

I saw that and it made my stomach turn. Sad

We humans do not know nearly enough about genetics to start messing about with our own genomes! That way leads to disaster. Also, who says a higher IQ is 'better'? Perhaps they don't want to increase IQ, but DEcrease it? So the general public is less able to criticise what the govt is doing!

HesterThrale · 17/02/2020 09:16

This getting rid of the BBC thing reminds me of the getting out of the EU thing:
... a major institution has some minor faults and injustices, alongside some major advantages and benefits. Our leaders (who have ulterior motives to move away from it) convince the majority it should be destroyed or rejected. The majority agree, and let it happen, not remembering the good things or thinking of what they’ll lose. Or what the alternatives will be.

It’s ‘throwing the baby out with bath water’. These institutions could be reformed / altered to be more just, without being decimated.

AutumnCrow · 17/02/2020 09:22

this resembles the marshalling of misunderstood or specious science into a political ideology

Sounds like the dangerous drivel coming out of the Equalities Committee.

Peregrina · 17/02/2020 09:42

Not much to say at the moment, except that this is Boris's Brexit and the Buck stops with Boris. (Well, Cummings really, but that doesn't alliterate!)

TheSultanofPingu · 17/02/2020 09:48

Couldn't agree more Hester.
It's all so depressing.

DGRossetti · 17/02/2020 09:50

.

Peregrina · 17/02/2020 09:52

Bicester Village is now suffering, with the number of Chinese visitors down because of the coronavirus.

lonelyplanetmum · 17/02/2020 09:56

I do rate the FT a lot.

Just a bit confused why Brexit hitting food supplies is news really? We joked about the necessity for roadkill recipes at least three years ago.

www.ft.com/content/b726868a-4f53-11ea-95a0-43d18ec715f5?segmentId=b0d7e653-3467-12ab-c0f0-77e4424cdb4c