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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Mask is Slipping

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/02/2020 05:30

This week has seen the department of the Chancellor who launched a 50p piece, the serious contemplation of a tin pot bridge, the rebirth of eugenics as a subject for cabinet, the announcement of the end of the BBC as we know it, the cabinet chanting after the PM in a way Orwell would be proud of, suppression of a report into trade deals which dares to mention the effect of distance and geography, worrying signs of an ever growing rift with Europe over negotiations for a deal, an appointment which starts to make our membership of the ECHR look very dodgy and there have been rather a lot of floods which so far seemed to have escaped the attention of those in London busy in their own swamp.

It's becoming apparent very quickly just how Trump like our new government are and how they want the UK to emulate the very worst aspects of America.

We are falling fast and its not looking like it will be pretty.

All we need is a major global issue to test our national resilience and the incompetence will truly be laid bare for us all to see... But not necessarily speak of. Such us the way it works.

Brexit Britain is not a nice looking prospect.

OP posts:
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31
Mockersisrightasusual · 22/02/2020 12:36

I'm sure PP would just love to bring back force-feeding.

Starting with er civil servants.

DGRossetti · 22/02/2020 12:41

europestreet.news/locked-out-the-brits-in-the-eu-who-may-not-be-able-to-return-to-the-uk

europestreet.news
Locked out: the Brits in the EU who may not be able to return to the UK - Europe Street News
Claudia Delpero
8-10 minutes

By Kevin Brunton, British in Sweden

The approval of the agreement on the UK withdrawal from the EU has given us British citizens living in EU countries a sense of security. Many of our rights will be protected under the deal.

But not everything has been settled, as thousands will find out in just over two years time.

Our only ‘mistake’ was to fall in love with someone from another country. In my own case it was with a Swede who subsequently spent many years studying, working and contributing to the UK. Since 2016, it has been common for families like ours to hear statements like “they’ll be fine, they’re related to a Brit” or ”I’m sure things will work themselves out”.

Those statements could not be more wrong. Under immigration rules published in September 2019, British citizens who want to return to the UK with their EU families after 30 March 2022 will be subject to stringent UK immigration rules (the hostile environment policies introduced in 2012 by the then Home Secretary, Theresa May).

This is already the reality for thousands of British citizens with non-EU partners.
Meeting the Minimum Income Requirement

In addition to a Minimum Income Requirement (MIR) of £18,600, a non-EU spouse (and non-UK spouse in the future) is subject to a number of visa obligations and healthcare charges that account for approximately £7,000 over a five-year period if families decide to stay in the UK on a permanent basis. The figure can be even higher for some people who need to pay for English language tests and the certified translation of official documents.

Couples bringing children to the UK are subject to a higher MIR depending on the number of children they have. The MIR has been challenged through the courts, but it was upheld by the Court of Appeal in 2014.

Applying for UK citizenship would add approximately £1,300 per person to these figures.

“Returning UK citizens with their non-British family members are not protected by the withdrawal agreement at all,” says Jane Golding, a Brit living in Germany who co-chairs the British in Europe coalition. “The rights of returning citizens are not covered in the withdrawal agreement, whether for EU nationals in the UK or Britons in the EU”.

“If I want to bring in my German (non UK) spouse to the UK after March 2022, I would have to show that I earn over the minimum income requirement. It doesn’t matter what he earns currently. And we would need to show that that income would be earned in the UK, unless we can prove that we have a certain level of savings in the UK,” Golding adds.

“The problems are three fold,” she told Europe Street. “First, some people will not earn enough to reach the minimum threshold. Second, if you come back to care for an elderly relative, you are unlikely to meet the threshold as you may not be working or only part-time. Third, if you are self-employed, you will have trouble proving that you earn enough.”

In Limbo, a project set up by Italian in the UK Elena Remigi to record the testimonies of EU and UK citizens affected by Brexit, is seeing an increasing number of posts describing such situations and concerns.

Many of these concerns relate to the ability to meet the MIR. This is hardly surprising as 2015 figures by the Migration Observatory at Oxford University showed that 41% of British nationals working as full-time or part-time employees did not earn enough to meet the £18,600 threshold.

Quoting Home Office immigration statistics in December 2018, the Migration Observatory reported that “since the income requirement was introduced in July 2012, just under 55,990 applications for entry visas to come to the UK as the partner of a citizen or settled person have been refused, equivalent to one quarter of all decisions on partner entry visas”.
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An enormous strain on relationships

Research and anecdotal evidence from families already affected by the rules suggest that this situation will place enormous strain on relationships, children’s mental health and wellbeing, and the health and wellbeing of elderly parents who cannot be cared for by their family.

Three years after the MIR was introduced, a research project commissioned by the Children’s Commissioner for England estimated that 15,000 children were being brought up in ‘Skype families’ because one parent did not meet the spousal visa requirements.

The 2015 study mentioned reports from those surveyed of “a number of emotional and behavioural problems for children who were living with parents who were separated inside and outside the UK.”

The report said: “Many parents reported that their children had become clingy and dependent on one parent; children often suffered from separation anxiety and became socially withdrawn, and some described children having difficulty socialising and experiencing problems at school. Parents described how children displayed eating and sleeping problems; slow or poor language development, and can display anger and violence toward peers and family. Some children said that they feel guilty and blame themselves for the absence of a parent.”

Jane Yilmaz set up the group Reunite Families UK, along with Caroline Coombs (de Alarcon), as a direct result of the ordeal that her own family was going through. Jane and daughter Ela were separated from her husband Altuğ by the same rules which will affect EU spouses after 29 March 2022.

Ela, now 9, experienced severe health difficulties following their move back to the UK, when she was aged 6. Jane describes a two-year period where Ela displayed selective mutism and severe anxiety leaving her at the point of collapse on occasions. She was registered with a child psychologist from CAMHS (Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services) during this period and the long-term impact on her health remains unclear.

Reunite Families UK are currently crowdfunding a book to distribute to all UK members of parliament.

Monique Hawkins of the3million group of EU nationals in the UK sums up the feelings of Brits in Europe who have already become aware of this issue: “I simply do not understand why the British government would treat its own citizens across the Channel in this way.”

“As a Dutch citizen living in the UK, I have been reassured by the Dutch government’s explicit statement that I have the right to return to the Netherlands in the future with my British (now non-EU) husband, without him having to be subjected to Dutch domestic immigration legislation. The EU Commission has confirmed to us that this is also the case with all other EU member states,” she says. “Granting this right is entirely in the gift of the British government and is not related to any negotiations with the EU.”

In comparison to the UK, the residence permit and spousal visa fees charged to third country nationals by many EU members are also relatively low at present.

David Milstead, a fellow member of the British in Sweden network, commented: “This is effectively a denial of a right to return. British citizens had legitimate expectations of being able to return to the UK with their families under EU rules, when their relationships started and life plans were made. Fixing this problem is in the gift the British government and it should do so. It might go some way to restoring their reputation in the eyes of British citizens in the EU who already feel badly let down by the provisions negotiated for them in the withdrawal agreement.”

With the UK government having shown little appetite for protecting our rights combined with the Home Secretary’s statements on freedom of movement, it remains to be seen whether the EU can be convinced to raise this issue in upcoming negotiations.

TheElementsOdeToJoy · 22/02/2020 13:55

This is effectively a denial of a right to return. British citizens had legitimate expectations of being able to return to the UK with their families under EU rules, when their relationships started and life plans were made.

Of course, one might cynically suggest that excluding Brits who have become tainted by foreignness, in addition to excluding actual foreigners, is entirely intentional and exactly what Leavers voted for (if only more of them had the gonads to admit it).

Peregrina · 22/02/2020 14:25

So much for 'global Britain'.

ListeningQuietly · 22/02/2020 15:07

Misses point of thread
now wants a Still for my birthday Grin

yoikes · 22/02/2020 15:33

Dh and I have been out today! :)

Dc are out so we took the opportunity to spend some time together not doing boring domestic "jobs".

We started off in our local town for breakfast.

2 new shops have just opened...a posh wine shop and another antique shop.

So the main steeet now consists of a florists, antique shop x 2, wine shop, hairdressers x 4, barbers x 3, co op, boutique clothes shop (££££££!) indian restsurants x 4, deli, 4 cafes, 2 takeaways, 3 bars, 2 gift shops, pharmacy, general store and a funeral director.

In an economic downturn, how many will survive??

We then went to the dales for a walk around and its the same there...its all cafes, gift shops, restaurants, barbers...so many barbers!!!!

Ok, its a tourist destination but still...how do the folk that live there shop for necessities??

Anyway, that's my rumination for the day!

Emilyontmoor · 22/02/2020 15:48

so many barbers!!!!

It won't be brexit that does for them, it will be beards going out of fashion. Our Turkish kebab shop were ahead of the curve, chopped their shop in half and and opened one specialising in hipster grooming three years ago. Now four more have opened in the last twelve months. Interesting range of USPs. In one you get a beer, another features a whole wall photograph of Damascus in better days. If I could grow a beard I would quite like a chance to contemplate it more closely.

ListeningQuietly · 22/02/2020 15:50

how do the folk that live there shop for necessities
Online

Clothes - online
Food - online
Electricals - online
Hair and toiletries - online

Haircuts, nails, treatments - high street
Eateries - high street
Second hand - high street

And with the high business rates for street frontage, any business that does not need footfall will move to a cheap unit or into the proprietors home

yoikes · 22/02/2020 15:56

Dunno.
Both places have lots of elderly people, and many of them (like my mother) will not do that...

HesterThrale · 22/02/2020 16:02

Hmmm.

Lord Bichard: Retired people could do work for pensions

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20044862

ListeningQuietly · 22/02/2020 16:03

Then they will probably be going to another bigger town or shopping centre and leaving the local shops to ephemera

HesterThrale · 22/02/2020 16:03

Sorry just noticed that’s an old report. But it wouldn’t surprise me with this government.

Ellie56 · 22/02/2020 16:31

Anything is possible with this government. Sad

DGRossetti · 22/02/2020 16:51

It won't be brexit that does for them, it will be beards going out of fashion

I hope we stay as hirsute as possible for a long while yet. Can't help but associate a fad for clean shaven/crewcuts with the obvious military connotations ...

DGRossetti · 22/02/2020 16:52

Lord Bichard: Retired people could do work for pensions

As a few people are muttering Sad

DGRossetti · 22/02/2020 16:53

now wants a Still for my birthday

I think you mean "water purifier" Grin

DGRossetti · 22/02/2020 16:54

and ...

Westminstenders: The Mask is Slipping
yoikes · 22/02/2020 17:05

Triumph motorcycles at hinckley moving overseas too

BigChocFrenzy · 22/02/2020 17:47

I'm wondering how long the state pension will be paid to traitors pensioners who now live in the EU
or at least how long they'll continue to receive any increases
..... since BJ is planning to ignore parts of the WA he signed

BigChocFrenzy · 22/02/2020 17:48

BJ has clearly stated his intention not to include the LPF (level playing field) provisions in any trade deal with the EU,
despite having agreed them in the WA PD

if it's not written into a deal, then it's not legally binding

  • so the EU would never agree more than the barest bones deal witout LPF

BJ speech at Greenwich on 3 Feb:

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-speech-in-greenwich-3-february-2020

There is no need for a free trade agreement to involve accepting EU rules on competition policy, subsidies, social protection, the environment, or anything similar
any more than the EU should be obliged to accept UK rules.

The UK will maintain the highest standards in these areas
– better, in many respects, than those of the EU –
without the compulsion of a treaty.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/02/2020 17:50

not forgetting the NI protocol, of course
If he delays prepping to implement it, then from January there may be a goods border in NI, at least until the UK side gets its act together

DGRossetti · 22/02/2020 18:36

^The UK will maintain the highest standards in these areas
– better, in many respects, than those of the EU – without the compulsion of a treaty.^

As a former boss of mine would have said, if you don't need a treaty, there's no harm in signing one ...

Mistigri · 22/02/2020 18:42

The NI protocol and citizens' rights are in the WA not the PD. So they are part of a binding international agreement.

Johnson could breach this but there would be serious consequences.

KenDodd · 22/02/2020 18:47

Johnson could breach this but there would be serious consequences
What consequences?

Peregrina · 22/02/2020 18:52

MIL (now 96) is from the Barrow region. She voted Remain but most of the relatives up their voted Leave. She thought then and still thinks that they were stupid. One of them, who had been a keen Brexiter, changed her tune to tell people to vote Labour, if they valued the NHS.

As for voting Tory, they are now beginning to find out that the Tories won't offer them anything.

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