For those of us quietly sad about leaving the EU.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

I'm not making a song and dance about it. I'm not falling out with anyone over it. I dont want to debate it. I'm just sad about it.

And that's ok.

Anyone else with me?

I see the government are already lying about the EU changing the rules on alignment and state aid.

Funny that, we can go back to 2018 to see this point, had it changed? Nope.

Dione that is partly the reason I voted Remain, I couldn't see how our government would be able to sort out Brexit. Certainly haven't filled me with confidence so far

This is the thing. It would theoretically be possible to reinvent the country. To 'do a Singapore' but with less draconian laws. Build social housing for everyone while revamping the education system to meet business needs for the new millennium. Make taxation work so we could still be an attractive gate way yo Europe. Give NI proper economic special area status.

They won't do any of that. Because their entire fucking plan to to make the people as poor and desperate and in as much conflict as possible so they can 'win' and grab as much money and power for themselves they can.

Singapore does not have post industrial areas
Singapore does not have hill farming areas
Singapore does not have hereditary estates
Singapore does not have large numbers of long term disabled
Singapore does not have rural transport issues
because Singapore is a small city state that has existed for less than a century.
The UK is a rather different entity

But the prediction that the economy would be smaller following a leave vote was correct

All transitions have costs. Like moving house. Like moving from a Material Resources Planning to Just in Time had learning curves that cost.

There was no "brexit paralysis" until june 2019

Caused by what exactly? I would say it was T May presenting the same rubbish deal three times.

Why would they want the one that was bespoke to the UKs needs?

Bespoke was not used. Point was where are the Countries who have said they want to join the EU on the basis of they pay £50 million per day gross to the EU and will always buy more from the EU than sell to the EU?

I meant 'do a Singapore' as in reinvent itself. It had slums full of homeless people, now 80-90% of it's population lives in government-built housing. In an eye-blink of time.

It's very clear from the list I gave that I didn't mean, 'slavishly follow Singapore's trajectory'. It very obvious the type of reinventing would have to be different. Entirely outside the scope of the current wankers in change.

TerryPratchett
I know that you were, rightly, picking out the good bits of the Singapore model
particularly their attitude to housing
sadly many of the people who want the UK to be like Singapore
know little about either

We don't pay 50 million per day.

The trade deficit is a result of UK government decisions not EU membership.

The EU still accounts for aroubd 50 percent of our exports, EU trade deals another 50 percent

:same rubbish deal 3 times".

The majoirty of which is in Boris's deal too.

However, the short period between May's deal being rejected, to Boris's being passed doesn't cover the 4 percent of GDP lost. That was caused by the leave vote, as predicted.

We don't pay 50 million per day

£50 million is the gross figure before rebate.

The EU still accounts for aroubd 50 percent of our exports, EU trade deals another 50 percent

UK imports more from the EU than it sells to the EU. Why that has come about doesn’t change that fact. Trade deficit with EU has increased year by year since 1999. Whereas UK has a surplus with non EU.

Remember that EU is about 15% of world trade and shrinking as a % as China and India become the big players.

www.bbc.co.uk/cbbc/watch/horrible-histories-song-british-things-song

The majoirty of which is in Boris's deal too

Johnson’s deal does not have the condition that UK would remain in the EU until EU had approved UKs border proposal for Ireland. That was the risk that was highlighted in the legal advice which T May tried to conceal.

That was caused by the leave vote, as predicted

Transitions, change of direction and strategy always have learning curve and sunk costs. Moving house is a good example. Removal, stamp duty and estate agents costs are all dead money.

No doubt the motor trade incurred learning curve costs in the transition from MRP to JIT, but the long term benefits were worth it. Don’t even try and tell me that car manufacturers moved to JIT overnight without costs.

So remain prediction that UK would incur initial costs by leaving the EU is hardly an earth shattering event that proves remain have a crystal ball that can forecast the future decades ahead with 100% certainty.

Johnson's deal has that NI will remain in the EU customs union until a trade deal is agreed, which is what May originally proposed and people like Johnson objected to.

The treasury predictions were on GDP accurate, and they were down to the leave vote.

According to Ann Widecombe, Brexit will be a benefit to young people.

She said she was also "tired of hearing nonsense" about the loss of young people's rights as a result of Brexit, claiming it was "all benefit"
"It's all benefit. It's going to bring us the ability to control our own laws, the ability to control our own trade deals and the resulting prosperity and freedom and what I hope will be the return of common sense in regulation - all that is going to benefit everybody
"I am tired of hearing this nonsense being talked that young people are going to be deprived of their rights to travel and to study in other countries
"I'm old enough to remember the days before we joined - we travelled, we studied, we lived, we worked in each other's countries all the time and that's how it will be again"

Has she no idea what being a 3rd country means? has she never read up on Schengen rules?

She went on to say if brexit goes wrong, it won't be the brexit parties fault.

She went on to say if brexit goes wrong, it won't be the brexit parties fault.
Of course it won't. Nor will it be the Conservative Party's fault. We are a nation ruled by liars, shirkers and charlatans, backed by the ignorant.

She went on to say if brexit goes wrong, it won't be the brexit parties fault

I get the distinct feeling that remainers are going to be set up for that. Looking forward to the mental gymnastics to describe how people who didn't vote for something will be to blame for thar something going wrong when the reason we didn't vote for it was because we knew it would go wrong

The EU is already being blamed for moving the goal posts on trade.

Except it hasn't and the documents are there that prove what the EU set out with the UK to be possible.

The gullible will buy it though.

Yep. The EU is going to be the bad guy. And Remainers also.

But we'll fight back and the voters for Brexit and the Govt can bloody well own it.

@malylis , as Johnson has moved the goalposts about what he actually agreed on NI, I suppose he's trying to distract from that.

@Roussette well said.

I'm old enough to remember the days before we joined - we travelled, we studied, we lived, we worked in each other's countries all the time and that's how it will be again

So does she really think that absolutely nothing has happened with regard to trade and other treaties, border controls, and indeed global politics generally in the last 47 years that might possibly affect that?

The idea that we can just go back seamlessly to how it was in the 60s seems to be a bit of a theme with Brexiters. And they wonder why people might think they they haven't really thought this through properly.

She went on to say if brexit goes wrong, it won't be the brexit parties fault.

Fascinating that the awful realisation that there could be a few problems is already beginning to dawn on the Brexit party.

Well... I'm old enough to remember before we joined too and it was not that easy! Take Erasmus... that lets any stident however poor get the chance to study abroad. It looks like that's gone now.

I am hoping that I will never ever hear from the ghastly Anne Widdicombe again, she is a disgrace and I hope the MEPs can quickly forget about her disgusting display in the european parliament

*student

There is nothing, absolutely nothing that benefits the young, the UK will try and attract skilled workers ahead of training our own, travel (in europe) will be limited to 90 out of 180 days (rolling) work will not require a visa and will be subject to exactly the same sort of rules the UK wishes to implement i.e. language, healthcare and quotas.

Sure over time, things might change and rules relaxed but thats years away.
Widecombe is at the end of her life, what does she care about taking rights from the young.

Johnson recently promised that Erasmus won't change but he hasn't yet negotiated that, so its not in his gift ... not that stops him or the stupid believing him.
Because make no mistake, we've got brexit because and i'll word this carefully, the less educated voted for it.

www.theweek.co.uk/89378/fact-check-did-uk-s-better-educated-vote-remain

Gotta love a good goalpost joke
www.pinterest.it/lonelywhispers/badgers-goalposts/