Westministenders: Canada Plus and the Transition Phase

[RedToothBrush]

As we approach the 31st January, we slowly tick towards exit and transition.

Things are not yet signed off though the No Deal planning has quietly been stood down with no press release and the government have said they won't talk about trade deals post 31st Jan because the public are bored of them and don't understand.

The new EU president has said that the UK doesn't have time to make a full deal with the EU before 31st December with a deadline which isn't flexible.

We still have no idea what the government plans are. We still have many EU citizens feeling very vulnerable.

Perhaps we should start talking about this rather than Royals for a couple of weeks...

I think the only thing that would really freak out Johnson would be for the whole country to truly 100% get behind him on brexit. Full endorsement. We tell him GO FOR IT BORIS! We take him fully at his word. He truly needs to own whatever the outcome will be. No more opportunity to deflect, blame or scapegoat. Buck ends with him.
Every single broken promise and failed goal must be ultimately scrutinised by a proper LOTO but not before measurable impact is felt. Let's give him a few months of full endorsement. That's the best thing the opposition can do for now. Let's stop playing the blame game as that's worked too well for the Tories.

To have good policies you need to
a) have some idea what you want to achieve
b) give a shit
c) have some outside pressure applied

Otherwise why bother, just the sound of policies will suffice

The Scots, Welsh and N Irish already have forms of PR I believe for some elections, so are you really saying that it's the English who are too thick?

Lol! probably! after all, if you've a large section of the population who think Brexit is a great idea and that Johnson is the solution, then as that Darwinism award identifies, we aren't the sharpest knives in the draw.

It comes back to the age old conundrum - why would a tory or lab govt change the voting system that got them nice majority, to one which would disadvantage them?

Should also be noted that despite the tories having no majority for the last 2 years, the opposition never once tried to get a PR bill through the commons.

You say the Brexit Arms is closing?

I hope we don't close down. Our focus can still be how Johnson handles the transition in the first instance, and then his broken promises.

Someone in the New European suggested that we adopt Regain, rather than Rejoin as a new slogan - it makes it clear that with Brexit we lost something.

He truly needs to own whatever the outcome will be. No more opportunity to deflect, blame or scapegoat. Buck ends with him.

As Govey's wife said - they were only supposed to blow the blardy doors off. The last three years have been good for them - all these protests - Remoaners not accepting democracy. 'Bung a bob for a Big Ben Bong' is not a policy.

Now, back to the railways and the cancellation of the spurs for the second phase of HS2. Not really a disaster. The West and East Coast main lines are OK and have been electrified for donkeys years - I am old enough to remember one of them being electrified. Beef up the trans-Pennine route, but make sure that the Leeds - Sheffield legs include good connections to Doncaster, for the East coast. A good compromise, and a whole lot cheaper than what is proposed now.

the opposition Labour never once tried to get a PR bill through the commons.

It's this old 'one more heave' business again.

The Arms is now Westminster Arms and is in the Politics topic.

My first thought about the Brexit Arms rebrand. Johnson says that they mustn't talk about Brexit, so they have dutifully drunk the Kool Aid.

Rebrands have a chequered history. Didn't the Post Office change its name at great expense to Consignia, and then change it back at more great expense.

You can change a pubs name but you don’t change the clientele. And they’ll still go silent and give the side eye to anyone who isn’t “one of them”.

I'm not "one of them" although I know not to get into it with anyone on there anymore. Mind you, I know not to get into it anymore on these threads either.

As I have just been slagged off by Arms- es for telling you lot where the Arms is, it would seem that cliques are alive and kicking all over the place.
Perhaps both sides need to grow the fuck up.

They’re not going to want to have their brand associated with Brexit when the reality kicks in. So the rebrand is probably just as well.

It's a sad state of affairs. Divisions run very deep in this country atm, and will probably do so for a long long time. I truly hope Brexit is a success despite not voting for it. Would rather admit I was wrong than have to say "I told you so!"

"The Arms is now Westminster Arms"

At least they didn't choose "Westministender Arms"

It should be ok for anyone to post in either place, with minority views,
but noone should deliberately goad in either place

btw, I had accidentally found them yesterday and someone had posted that they were thinking of posting here just to provoke us, but decided not to
So I hope noone here goes over to stir them up. Peace

It's pretty obvious some ploppers just want to provoke, but I do hope Brexiters like louise continue to post here when they have time

• I disagree with many of her views, but they are genuine and without the sly digging of some

It's valuable to hear different views, but her posts sound so similar to what my NE family say that I sometimes wonder if she's one of my cousins !

peregrina I was thinking the same about rebranding having tzrickled down to the foot-soldiers
Like Sellafield / Windscale

It will be interesting to see what words BJ / Cummings use from 2021, when "Brexit" spews radioactive economic poison
Knowing Cummings, the first word will be "fuck"
but maybe with the new 19th century Tory party, Brexit will become like the crazy relative shut in the attic that noone mentions

The rebranding is consistent with what noises have come from no 10 regarding not talking about trade deals because it bores the public.

It's all about proving that Brexit has been done on 31st Jan.

The reality is very far from that. It also allows more flexibility in Johnson's position though. He can make certain noises and then either go with it or roll back in a way he couldn't if it was labelled as Brexit.

Tbh I'm not sure that the Remain / leave labels are healthy anymore anyway so I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing. As long as the obvious is pointed out and there us transparency. (we have a serious risk of this not being the case though now).

Cummings BJ can "ban" the word Brexit but as long as we have free speech in the UK, we can continue to use it . And Cummings BJ certainly can not stop the EU and commentators elsewhere in the world using the term.

I'll t is after all, a description of a statement of fact, that Britain the UK is exiting or has exited (there is no "tense" in the term: it's just an amalgam of Britain and Exit ) the EU. There will continue to be for a very long time consequences and actions required as a result of that fact.

I do like the idea of using the term "Regain" rather than "Rejoin".

The Arms is def rebranding as ordered by Cummings. Footsoldiers in the press will no doubt follow suit on 1st Feb.

The Arms will die out of boredom in their new home, the only time it they were ever truly alive in there was when they were having a pile-on.

It's a sad state of affairs. Divisions run very deep in this country atm, and will probably do so for a long long time

There is still a lot of division left over from the Spanish Civil war. Since Franco didn't die until 1975 I suppose you could say the immediate results lasted for 40 years and that they have spent the last 45 beginning to come to terms with it.

The public will probably stay bored during transition, with blanking / denial / minimisation if some firms quietly pull out of the UK

However, unless the future trade deal enables UK exports of goods and services to continue without much reduction,
the economic consequences would start to bite in the 2nd half of 2021

"Brexit" may be a forgotten non-word by then, but recession, inflation, unemployment, bankruptcies would be noticed
If BJ / Cummings want to blame Remainers and the EU, they would risk the B-word returning to circulation

Or of course, they could just blame Labour

• I saw a Tory do this on a recent MN thread, claiming 10 years of Tory austerity and any future cuts are all because of the previous Labour govt

I don't suppose it matters which camp you are in, Leave or Remain, whatever happens next is entirely down to Boris and his gang. The opposition parties can only oppose, knowing that doing so will make not the slightest bit of difference, given the whopping great Conservative majority.

This months BBC History magazines end piece is Michael Heseltine bigging up Harold Macmillan ....

Q: What would Macmillan have made of Brexit ?
A: A fucking disaster.

It's all about proving that Brexit has been done on 31st Jan.

This is a potential pitfall for the govt, since if Brexit is "done", no deal preparations for 1/1/21 are going to be a hard sell.

To a certain extent, Remainers need to get behind the "Brexit is done" message, to tie the governments hands. It may be that best way of avoiding a 1/1/21 cliff edge for manufacturing businesses, road freight and tourism is to keep promoting the idea that Brexit is done and dusted on the 1st of Feb.

It's all about proving that Brexit has been done on 31st Jan. [] This is a potential pitfall for the govt, since if Brexit is "done", no deal preparations for 1/1/21 are going to be a hard sell.

My approach would have been be simply to declare that Brexit is done, and wait for Breixteers to start pointing out the bits not done that they think constitute "Brexit". Because otherwise there is a very real risk that in 2050, some arsehole son of a long dead Brexiteer will be making political hay because wasn't done.

I have a vague feeling there's an Aesop fable, or a parable with that plot ....