Westminstenders: Social Conservativism

[RedToothBrush]

The post election autopsy is starting to show something up. Finally. Brexit is part of wider political issues and fractures. This isn't exactly rocket science but it's an inconvenient truth that has been ignored.

We have something of a conflict going on between economic conservatism and social conservatism.

The Tories as the party of business were economically conservative and put this ahead of other issues. "It's the economy stupid."

But as this has continued this has opened up social division and the gap between rich and poor has laid bare social issues.

This is where Labour and the LDs are now becoming something of a cropper. In Brexit they continued the idea that the economy was the most important this and in doing so has fuelled the idea that they don't care about social issues. They are perceived to be putting the interests of businesses as more important than those people.

Of course it's not as straightforward as this. To fund ways to stop social issues you need good economics.

Add to this the progressive movement which has become authoritarian and has lost sight of certain social issues in favour of identity politics and you start to have a real issue. One that the EU as an identity has become caught up in in this country. The wedge to drive in the cracks.

Issues haven't been tackled because identity is more important and was prioritised. And we've had scandals arising out of this.

Instead we've had the increasing demonisation of social conservativism and the idea that if you question certain things you are backward or bigoted as a means to silence people. And now we've had a massive backlash against that generalisation and lack of nuance. And not seeing what was happening and having a self awareness of how this read to more socially conservative types.

That's not to say there aren't massive issues in social conservatism which can be indeed racist, homophobic, sexist and yes very bigoted in nature. The trouble is that the failure to be able to tackle nuance which identity politics forced and a failure to understand that the pace of change needs to be set by public consensus rather than top down authoritarianism has lead us to where we are now.

Rights set up to protect certain groups have failed in practice even if they exist in law. And those who professed to stand for the interests of certain groups forgot the origins of rights.

Thus undermining the entire centre left project, which in some respects the EU embodies.

We now find ourselves in a divided and ruled scenario where those who should have benefitted most from rights can be exploited by an elite who have successfully seen an opportunity to step into the void that identity politics created.

And now the left and liberals have to wake up to this reality and come up with a solution to it.

There is a lot of uncomfortable and difficult decisions to be made here.

The solution to the culture war isn't to push back harder and to become more authoritarian in tone about the right of 'right and wrong'.

It's to address why identity politics caused the left and liberals to forget their origins and purpose and why they established certain ideals in the first place.

Meanwhile whilst they figure out just how they lost their way and were blinkered by their own self righteousness, everything that the centre left project established will be gradually unpicked. Or if Johnson can do it, without being challenged, at some considerable pace.

It comes down to remembering your roots and having a solid connection with the reality of people's lives rather than high minded idealism and a sense of superiority. This is what people saw regardless of the noble intent of Labour and the Lib Dems.

'Social conservatism' were dirty words. Now they are the reality of the present. Whether we like it or not.

Economic stability has become secondary to this desire for social conservatism.

Labour and the Lib Dems have to adapt to this and will have to offer something to those with more socially conservative views to move forward now. The alternative is a very long wait outside in the cold of politics.

Liberal democracy is about balancing needs. You have to identify needs and you have to understand how to balance them for liberal democracy to thrive. Failure to do the former means the latter fails.

And here we are.

2020 beckons.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New to all.

Global warming isn't something that can be voted away
Already, the required measures would be noticeable

To be fair, looking at policy statements, even this govt seems to accept the necessity

However, it is a real political problem getting people to make sacrifices for something that will likely - in the West - only be a disaster for future generations in say 50-100 years.
Bluntly, voters don't care sufficiently about disasters now in developing countries to change their lifestyles.

Just to come back to Golf Course Management. This degree is actually offered by prestigious RG university , Birmingham! And has really high entry requirements, including high A Level grades and a golf handicap!

I never used my degree AT ALL other than as proof that I could study.
One of my children plans to use their degree to leap sideways
The other plans to complete their degree and do something totally different
(all are pure stem subjects)

There is much too much groupthink among policy makers.

Trying to explain that no, clients do not use cloud computing to record their taxes, they stuff paper receipts into an envelope because they cannot read, was rather an eye opener for some.

The guys building the motorways do not need or have degrees, or even A levels .

And I do think that people need to think - and be held to account for - what they voted for.

I have done, and continue to do, a lot of (powerless) 'thought-work' on the failure of the Progressive argument.

But I'm damned if I'm letting those with right-wing leanings off the hook.

I've been reading books about the Thatcher-Reagan years - the time of the AIDS crisis.

It is astonishing to remember what it was like to live through that as the minoritarian (Deleuzian term) element of not just politics but reality itself.

To watch people die - and have a section of society vote again and again for a continuation of the crushing experience of stigma, pain and marginalisation.

And, you know, a lot of the same people have voted exactly the same way again.

So there really is a place for an examination and an acknowledgement of that.

If only to add to the acknowledgment of the textural richness and the multiplicity of the present moment - in all its chaotic, ambivalent, ambiguous wholeness.

As well as FPTP, the UK also of course has a new self-made problem:

No other country in modern history has chosen to risk making 45% of its exports more difficult, plus the % affected by losing all its other trading agreements
Plus 70 billion GDP lost since the referendum, even before we've Brexited

Other countries are increasing their integration with their regional trading block, not slashing it.

Brexit is likely to worsen the effects on the UK of the globalisation and automation challenges that all Western countries face.

Agree, BigChoc.

Our democratic systems aren't really built for getting to grips with climate change.

In my darker moments, I think young people will have to commit a mass suicide in protest at the prospect of an unliveable future to get older people to vote against their immediate self interests.

Global warming isn't something that can be voted away

No, but some of measures to mitigate it, would be beneficial - better public transport for a starter. Londoners have good public transport and can manage without cars. If you live in a rural village in say Staffs, Denbighshire, or even prosperous Oxfordshire, you can't.

I think it's a conceit des nos jours to believe the collapse of what we think of as our civilisation is impossible. I'm sure people living in Europe felt the same about the Roman Empire in 350 AD.

Maybe we're approaching the point where whoever is "in power" finds themselves unable to "govern" due to the complexity of competing demands ? Whither then ? After all, it's a sobering thought that since the birth of Christ (something we are supposed to remember this time of year) damn near one year in five was under Roman rule of some form or another. Eclipsed by the 1 in 2 of overall "Norman" rule, but by the same token pissing all over the Tudors, Stuarts, Hanoverians and Windsors ...

(I may have been catching up on some documnetaries )

PS I also feel hope : without altruism, and voting against immediate self-interests there would be no politics - and no meaningful humanity.

In my darker moments, I think young people will have to commit a mass suicide in protest at the prospect of an unliveable future to get older people to vote against their immediate self interests.

Or, following a thread on 87 year olds being sent to prison, why not a grouping of crusties with guns taking out people in the knowledge that a few years in prison is infinitely preferable to a few years at the tender mercies of state care circa 2040 ?

thecatfromjapan
I watched the remake of The Earth Stood Still yesterday.
Governments will act to save the climate.
Scientists are ready.
It just does not feel like it right now.

Thecat I was already an adult before the Aids crisis, so my memories:

It was a challenge that the Thatcher govt rose to as well as any govt of any party could have done
That was something they did really well,
imo probably because the then Cabinet Secretary recognised early the scale of the catastrophe and brought his PM with him

There were many vile voices on the right though, in politics and media, blaming those with AIds and saying they deserved it
Fortunately at that time the Tory party was of the sane hard right, so the vile did not prevail.

And I do think that people need to think - and be held to account for - what they voted for.

Absolutely - so when Tory voters start whinging about NHS waiting lists, remind them that this is what they wanted. If they then say that Boris Johnson promised 50,000 more nurses, remind them just how much form he has for lying and cheating so why did they take his word for it. However, this doesn't solve the problem - they need to be asked what their solution would be.

I meant not all "education" happens in educational settings.
In fact I would argue there is a strong case to argue that the degree of specialisation in most University level subjects these days necessitates becoming an "expert" in a very specific field such as Golf Course Management or Astrophysics at the expense of becoming "educated" more generally.

I have a degree and a professional qualification as was the approved route when I was in my 20s (I am 51). Lots of my bosses, who will now be in their mid 60s and 70s did not have degrees. Given they were Partners in a Big 4 accounting firm it would come as a bit of a surprise if they were in fact "less educated" than the average 23 year old graduate.

I have just had a parcel with a customs fee to pay form my stupid DSis (third year running!) in the US.

It did occur to me that this may be the shape of things to come form many more people soon, since customs are extremely keen to slap VAT on parcels coming in from non EU countries even when they are clearly tat gifts. At the moment, being in the EU protects us form this kind of duty for parcels from EU countries.

howabout
Indeed. Accountancy degrees were worth less than Geography for Accountancy exams in the 80's

Peregrina difficult to argue Labour were offering much different to the Tories on the NHS. The BBC did a manifesto side by side. Therefore hard to blame the voters for there being no choice.

No, but some of measures to mitigate it, would be beneficial - better public transport for a starter.

Or (whispers) how about reducing the fucking need to travel in the first place ? All this talk of air travel rationing, maybe we should have an overall travel budget per person per year ? You've got (say) 100,000 miles. All of a sudden that daily 100 mile commute starts to look a bit too much. Especially if you want your 2 weeks in florida (10,000 miles or 10% of your limit).

If you want radical solutions, just keep tuned. eventually I - or somebody with a hairstyle like mine - must come up with something that would work. Although as we all know (at heart) the real problem is that for all the handwringing (threads passim) nobody has the slightest intention of doing anything themselves.

Imagine how much carbon emissions would be reduced if we stopped making planes, buses trains and ships ? To say nothing of the reduction that would follow from not using the unbuilt things ?

Alternatively we could work out what we think a sustainable level of human population on earth is, and try to work towards that. Or are we still following the idea we can have an infinite number ? Maybe there is an as yet unknown third way that is not infinite, and not finite ?

Lots of my bosses, who will now be in their mid 60s and 70s did not have degrees.

In those days, it was perfectly possible for someone with A Levels to take Articles to qualify as a Solicitor or a training contract leading to Chartered Accountancy, and the end result was regarded as being of the same standard as a degree course would have been.

DG On parts of the European continent, the Holy Roman Empire lasted in some form until the early 1800s
It seems to have been a Catholic thing, defending the faith

Yeas and no, BigChoc.

The response by the Conservatives was divided - Thatcher was against it and 'wet' members of the Cabinet managed the response against her wishes.

See here:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2015/dec/30/thatcher-tried-to-block-bad-taste-public-health-warnings-about-aids

Also, Thatcherism proceeded partly by way of marrying an ideology of 'family vslues' to a neo-liberal economic programme. Part of that ideology was a stigmatisation of gay people.

That didn't just mean gay people were made to feel sad about right wing tirades in nasty newspapers.

It meant people lost their jobs.

In addition, Thatcherism both created and penalised the unemployed, making poverty and homelessness a brutal reality.

Both of these were significant factors in the reality of contracting and living with HIV/AIDS.

Put this together and you can begin to see what was something like a war under Thatcher.

Yes, there was a key difference around information and treatment (thank you, NHS) between the UK and the US - but there were also some terrible similarities.

DGR - I think you live in a city. Try living somewhere rural. Now, my late Dad nearly always walked to work, which was a twenty minute walk away. However, that Office got closed - more efficient, you see - to be replaced by one 15 miles away, without regular transport.

Or even now, our local council had offices in the town centre, and 15 minutes walk from my house. They are now on a trading estate about 6 miles away, with a fat chance of anyone walking there.

Uni education should teach critical thinking and analysis, broaden horizons, living with a wide range of people with for 3+ years with a wide variety of views & backgrounds etc,
not just cramming in facts about a particular very narrow field

Those who are self-taught, or worked their way up in a company with just "O" or "A" levels, have had a very different experience,
even if they reached the same levels within the company as someone with a degree
Not better or worse, but different

Cultural memory is ... strange, shocking, fascinating and terrible in it's ability to forget.

You don't have to read all of this article, but the anecdote/historical account of the death of Mark Ashton that opens this is ... shocking.

Shocking because I think you will undergo a process as you read it: you will suddenly remember the 80s, and then be stunned by what you've forgotten.

And, you know, I think - in that gap - there lies much of the explanation for the political situation we find ourselves in now. Or, at the very least, a key to understanding it (& getting through it).

Article:

academic.oup.com/hwj/article/83/1/51/3093555