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Brexit

Brexit Arms - Out with the old and in with the new

999 replies

time4chocolate · 20/12/2019 12:16

It’s time again for another Brexit Arms thread to see us into Christmas and beyond.

Well what a week it’s been!!

Boris has now completed his first week and he’s been busy. New conservatives have been sworn in, the Queens Speech yesterday shows promise (aware that the proof of the (Xmas) pudding is in the eating) and Boris’ Deal is going to be voted on today with the results being around 3pm I believe.

Meanwhile, on the other side all four wheels have definitely fallen off the red bus and were very nearly joined by a garden gate and a car door. Oh dear!!

Anyway, I have added a few more Christmas decs to the pub and popped the fairy back on the tree (it took a nasty tumble)

We are now good to go.
Cheers all 🍷🍷

Ps. If anyone wants to volunteer for outside catering that would be👍🏻

Brexit Arms - Out with the old and in with the new
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52
Dapplegrey · 21/12/2019 20:07

It was a prize awarded by the International Peace Bureau apparently.

Duckwillow - Time Magazine made Hitler man of the year once and Stalin man of the year twice.
These awards don’t always go to the most deserving people.

DuckWillow · 21/12/2019 20:15

Yes I know that now Dapple, I did some reading and it seems he award isn’t even a current one. I still don’t know what my cousin was referring too but it was something in the Swiss news.

And Mama free speech is indeed precious but this doesn’t excuse the kind of behaviour which went on in tapping people’s phones
The media quite rightly came under a lot of pressure as a result. I still have little faith in what I read in our newspapers. There’s free speech and there’s out and out misinformation intended to make people think one way or another. I’d definitely be in favour of preventing the newspapers from political commenting in the run up to elections. The media barons have too much control over what we read.

time4chocolate · 21/12/2019 20:21

Evening all,
Mulled wine and nuts on the bar, help yourselves.🍷🍷🥜.

It's still raining here ☔️ but I did get all my Christmas errands finished (for today anyway).

Corbynism going (obviously good) but will it be replaced by Baileyism (not so good) - a case of same 💩 different name!

Haven't seen seen that film Theworld so I will add it to my Christmas break tv watchlist (which at this moment in time looks like it will go the same way as my 'books to read' on my kindle) Grin

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time4chocolate · 21/12/2019 20:25

Autmn sounds like a very good lunch

I suggest 'hair of the dog' it is Christmas after all Xmas Smile

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jewel1968 · 21/12/2019 20:30

Can I ask a couple of questions please.
Have you any preference for a deal Vs no deal?
If you would prefer a deal are you OK with no deal?

HateIsNotGood · 21/12/2019 20:34

There is little point now in vilifying JC any further, he's done, it's over, he's been neutralized - it could have been good, but it wasn't; I'm not into kicking a man once he's down.

I'm having a noir serioux - sorry to sound chiding to my fellow Armateers, but I'm getting down to the nitty gritty on the Post-Brexit thread, having grabbed attention with the aptly named (thanks to yolo) toastergate posts.

Can't wait to start talkin' (my n' way of postin' is in homage to Beth of The Red and Pink Sky btw - hope she's ok now, and out of grievin') about Fish - coz that's gonna take an helluva lotta talkin'.

time4chocolate · 21/12/2019 20:37

Welcome Jewel1968🍷

I would prefer a 'deal' to 'no deal' but I would take 'no deal' over remaining.

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Walkingdeadfangirl · 21/12/2019 20:39

Have you any preference for a deal Vs no deal?
I dont believe that is the choice. There will be 'at least' some sort of deal which will be added to over the years.

If you would prefer a deal are you OK with no deal?
I am ok with leaving the EU, so whatever it takes.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 21/12/2019 20:42

I'm not into kicking a man once he's down

Awww its xmas cant we have a 'little' fun until the new year at least? We have been fighting to get this for 4 years.

time4chocolate · 21/12/2019 20:52

I'm having a noir serioux - sorry to sound chiding to my fellow Armateers, but I'm getting down to the nitty gritty on the Post-Brexit thread, having grabbed attention with the aptly named (thanks to yolo) toastergate posts

So you are Hate - popped on their just now to have a read and that toaster pic caused me to have nasty flashback. I had an embarrassing experience with one in the dining room of a hotel some years back. If you are in the market for the perfect toaster I certainly wouldn't recommend you get one of those!!

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time4chocolate · 21/12/2019 20:53

there FFS

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Defenbaker · 21/12/2019 21:01

Bojo seems to be knuckling down and taking things more seriously now. He's far from perfect, but I dare to hope that he will try to deliver on his promises. He makes me laugh, and I love the positive vibe from him, and his confidence that he can get everything sorted. I hope he can. Early days so far, but his attitude is like a breath of fresh air.

I breathed a sigh of relief when the WA got voted through with such a large majority on Friday. It makes me hopeful that the horrible limbo is over and we can now move forward. I hope for a soft Brexit, where we trade with the EU but are not controlled by the CAP or fisheries rules, and where we can control immigration. I'm not worried that we will suddenly lose all workers' rights or lower our food and farming standards - these are enshrined in our laws and no government would try to scap them. Also, we have higher animal welfare standards than the rest of the EU, so it will be good to support our UK farmers to maintain those standards.

I would not be terrified by a no deal Brexit, but think it would make our economy quite shakey for a while. A soft Brexit is a bit of a compromise, and will still have us tied to the EU in some ways, but hopefully not dominated by them, and not paying such huge contributions. I hope that a soft Brexit with a good trade deal might calm things down in Scotland, as a second Indyref now would really muddy the waters. Maybe if we get a decent trade deal that would be the time for another Indyref - then the Scots could decide which they prefer - to be part of the UK, or part of the EU. I don't mind, either way, but I am sick of the Scottish MPs banging on about how badly they are treated, and suspect they would struggle economically if they gain independence.

MamaMary · 21/12/2019 21:23

I’d definitely be in favour of preventing the newspapers from political commenting in the run up to elections.

No way. Newspapers should be free to print commentary and analysis while the public should be free to read, ignore, question, challenge. The key is having a range of voices representing different views. But to shut down freedom of expression is never the way to go.

jewel1968 · 21/12/2019 22:22

My understanding is

  • UK is required by law (Withdrawal Agreement) to seek an extension (if needed or desired) before July 2020
  • if trade deal is not agreed by end of June 2020 then UK on course for No Deal
  • if desperate for extension in Dec 2020 then EU probably not legally able to grant it even if they want it
  • in these circumstances then UK leaves without deal

So June/July 2020 key point on journey to Brexit.

AutumnRose1 · 21/12/2019 22:22

Sorry I’m still drunk so have no political commentary to offer

However, I noticed time said this “ I had an embarrassing experience with one in the dining room of a hotel some years back.“


If it’s anything like my experience- set the toast on fire - then the staff just laughed and said it happens all the time. 😱

TheWorldturnedUpsideDown · 21/12/2019 22:31

"Boris bounded along, wearing his dappiest cocker spaniel smile. He turned to his opponent, his beady eyes oozing like ramekins of oeuf en gelee, and muttered what we must assume were a few cheery bon mots."

"Corbyn's reaction? Stony silence. That whiskery face simply stared ahead, his hooded peepers as fierce and intense as a murderous cyborg. And with that, away he zoomed, putting as much distance between himself and the Prime Minister as possible. What a sad, sour little man he is."

"Lovely Tracey Crouch (Con, Chatham and Aylesford) was a hoot. At one point she compared a miserable looking Corbyn to Old Marley, the tormented ghost from Dickens' A Christmas Carol. 'Smile Jeremy, it won't kill you!' yelled a Tory heckler. She was seconded by Eddie Hughes (Con, Walsall North) a cheeky, 'cor blimey, governor' sort of character you used to find in Ealing comedies"

"When Corbyn rose, he had nothing left in the tank. Zilch. Detuned radios are more fun to listen to than him. He played those tried and failed cards about the evil Tories who planned to sell off the NHS so firmly rejected by voters last week.

From behind, there came not a single cheer or murmur of support. Having stood up to groans, he stood down to absolute silence.

Poor Jezza. He's now back to being that lonely, stranded figure he was on the backbenches, ranting in his Cornish pasty shoes against anyone and everything, an object of derision to opposition parties and an embarrassment to his own.

Boris, acknowledging this was likely to be one of his and Corbyn's final exchanges at the dispatch box ('alas!') naturally killed his opponent with kindness.

He described Corbyn as a man of deeply held convictions whose 'sincerity was to be admired'. Cue generous 'yer, yers' from the government benches. As I say, two very different creatures."

new article

"You could have carved the atmosphere on Labour’s front bench with a busted teaspoon.

Never had there been such a sullen heap of corpses. Each propped up in silence, alone, awkwardly trapped in pained thought like patients in a dentist’s waiting room.

Dawn Butler (Lab, Brent Central) was particularly sulky. John McDonnell, still that same ashen grey as he was when interviewed in the minutes following last Thursday’s exit poll, masticated furiously on something. Wasps, perhaps? Certainly not humble pie.

As for Jeremy Corbyn, he was a shell. When the down-but-not-yet-out Labour leader eventually stood to speak, there were a few sarcastic cheers from the Government side but from his own benches? Nada.

I half-expected knots of tumbleweed to start cartwheeling through the chamber.

By contrast, an almighty roar greeted Boris Johnson at the dispatch box.

With a whopping great Blue Wall of 365 MPs perched behind him, they issued a cry so thumping that I think the chandeliers started swaying. Whoooomph! Passers-by outside in Whitehall might have wondered if Godzilla had just woken from a deep slumber.

The new House had assembled for the first time and predictably it was party mood on the Government benches. At least for those able to nab a seat. For MPs were packed in tighter than tinned anchovies. Even po-faced Theresa May was breaking out into belly laughs.

As for the Prime Minister, he seemed unable to wipe a satisfied smirk from his face. Cockier than Muhammad Ali mid-shuffle."

Peering around the chamber, he announced proudly: ‘I mean absolutely no disrespect to those who are no longer with us but I think this Parliament is a vast improvement on its predecessor.’ From his benches, yet more cheers of approval. At last, a party united. No Grieve. No Letwin. No more bloody John Bercow spoiling the stew.

new article

"HENRY DEEDES Boris Johnson pegged it out of the Commons chamber on Friday. You barely saw the PM for dust. I don't think I've seen him move so fast since he was pushed for a quick single once in a cricket match.

It was a few minutes shy of 3pm and MPs had just backed his Brexit Withdrawal Agreement Bill – 1,274 days, 16 hours and roughly 42 minutes since the referendum result was announced on that balmy June morning back in 2016.

At last, a deal had been passed! Some of us half hoped the PM would respond with a little victory jig at the Despatch Box. But no sooner was the result announced than whooooooosh!

That unmistakable mass of white blond hair was out the door quicker than a motorised hare at a greyhound track. And so it is finally done. On January 31, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland will leave the European Union

Grin
HateIsNotGood · 21/12/2019 22:33

And the many toaster posts here confirm to me that there is a need/local market for UK bread-size/plug appropriate Toasters and possibly the 'personal care' small appliance market too.

I have only identified electric toothbrushes and shavers as 'market leaders', but I'm sure it's not beyond the wit and expertise of others here to add their own suggestions to other Personal Care Appliances that the UK Entrepreneur can take as an idea and run with....

SingingLily · 21/12/2019 22:45

My understanding is
*- UK is required by law (Withdrawal Agreement) to seek an extension (if needed or desired) before July 2020

  • if trade deal is not agreed by end of June 2020 then UK on course for No Deal
  • if desperate for extension in Dec 2020 then EU probably not legally able to grant it even if they want it
  • in these circumstances then UK leaves without deal
So June/July 2020 key point on journey to Brexit.*

That's interesting, Jewel1968, and contrary to what is being reported: that Boris has amended the bill to legislate against any extension to the transition period ending on 31 December 2020.

Where did you get your information from?

SingingLily · 21/12/2019 22:54

TheWorld, the first article sounds like Quentin Letts.

HateIsNotGood · 21/12/2019 23:01

I'm so post-research myself, that i can't be arsed to link, but somewhere in my recall lies that the 2 yr Transition period was started at a certain point relevant to A50 or somesuch. It may or may not have been extended, but I believe the current end of Transition date is that Dec 2020 one.

Related to my recent angst caused by too much 'dither and delay', was that little voice saying "don't they remember their delaying shenanigans are cutting into our 2yr Transition".

Anyway I feel the same relief as Baker above describes.

time4chocolate · 21/12/2019 23:02

That's interesting, Jewel1968, and contrary to what is being reported: that Boris has amended the bill to legislate against any extension to the transition period ending on 31 December 2020

That was my understanding too Singing

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SingingLily · 21/12/2019 23:04

Thank you, Jewel1968, but although the article makes a fleeting reference to 1July 2020, there is no further explanation as to how the Irish Times came by this information and it is still at odds with what is being reported here. I have checked both the BBC and The Guardian for reference, btw.

In any case, this bit -

*My understanding is

  • UK is required by law (Withdrawal Agreement) to seek an extension (if needed or desired) before July 2020*
  • puzzles me. The Withdrawal Agreement has only completed the Second Reading stage and now proceeds to Committee Stage. It is a bill. Not law. Not yet, anyway. Therefore the UK is not yet "required by law" to do anything until such time as the bill completes all stages and receives Royal Assent. This is not likely to happen till mid-January 2020. Given that Boris has repeatedly said that the bill will contain a "Miller-proof" clause that no Minister may seek any extension, I can't see him going back on his word now.
SingingLily · 21/12/2019 23:10

the 2 yr Transition period was started at a certain point relevant to A50 or somesuch.

Are you thinking of the two-year period that follows formal notification of intention to leave under Article 50, Hate? That expired on 29 March 2019 although further extensions were agreed between the UK until 12 April 2019, 31 October 2019 and then, thanks to the Benn Act, until 31 January 2020.

HateIsNotGood · 21/12/2019 23:13

In order to clarify things a bit, the Irish Times article provided by Jewel is a an 'educated' perspective that gives a possible description of what could transpire, based on facts that we currently know.

It is no more than that. It is not a definitive explanation of what will be, nor does it outline any of the many possibilities that could also transpire.

I'm rather pleased my recall is reasonably correct - the end of the 2 yr Transition period triggered by A50 is the end of Dec 2020. If an extension is required the UK must request this by July 2020 under the existing EU Law outlined for a member state that chooses to Leave.

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