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Brexit

Westminstenders: Penny dropping time

935 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/12/2019 08:12

Johnson already seems to be hinting at protections for workers rights and the environment that he promised are to be dropped.

Along with enshrining Brexit in law to the end of Dec 2020 thus creating another Brexit no deal date. This time without any safety net in parliament.

"won't Johnson be more liberal than he suggested" they cry

About that...

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ChrismArseDarkly · 20/12/2019 17:53

Completely appreciate that this attitude does not represent all Christians, nor all leave voters

You certainly are right about that!

ChrismArseDarkly · 20/12/2019 17:54

Oh slow posting, - that was to DirtyDiamond.

ChrismArseDarkly · 20/12/2019 17:55

Not sure what you mean by that Listening - clearly you don't understand Democracy and will need to have your 'interview' with Cummings ASAP!

ListeningQuietly · 20/12/2019 18:04

Chrism
Oh I'd love to have a little chat with Mr Cummings

BlaueLagune · 20/12/2019 18:13

Both said that they were voting Brexit because this was a Christian country and there were too many Muslims

Apparently my supposedly intelligent cousin voted for Brexit for precisely the same reason. What can you do?

DGRossetti · 20/12/2019 18:17

Probably not the place, but I wonder what happens when the TRA lobby meet the hardcore Islamic lobby in this country head on ? (Seeing as we have too many Muslims, apparently).

borntobequiet · 20/12/2019 20:38

Very quiet this evening. I don’t have anything to say either...

Grinchly · 20/12/2019 20:44

Isn't it @borntobequiet
Here is a random beauty cat pic.

Westminstenders: Penny dropping time
RedToothBrush · 20/12/2019 20:59

Re stockpiling. You are good til July.

The UK have to ask for an extension to post Brexit arrangements by July.

If we don't we are full into no deal shit in August for Dec 2020. So that gives a few months to get your shit together. If you are aware of what's going to happen.

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CrissmussMockers · 20/12/2019 21:26

No Extension, No Canada.

No Extension equals either Norway/Switzerland or Planet Zog.

Torchlightt · 20/12/2019 21:51

Can't imagine them doing a u-turn to Norway or Switzerland.

Songsofexperience · 20/12/2019 23:03

Can't imagine them doing a u-turn to Norway or Switzerland.

Unless the 'brexit is done' brainwash works. If people are truly relieved that the whole topic is dead there will be no need to rock the boat. Switzerland would suit banks I assume and there would be some control over workers' freedom of movement (though perhaps not a points system- was there a mention of that in the Queen speech?)

Norway doesn't work (SM but no CU).
No deal would mean no end of trouble for Johnson and I'm not sure he wants a difficult term in office. With a Switzerland brexit he would still get full credit for brexit and certainly get re-elected.

Torchlightt · 21/12/2019 01:21

Can you imagine how the ERG and Farage would react to a proposed BRINO? There's no way Johnson would get away with it, even if he wanted it. And since the election the percentage of nutters in the Tory party has gone up a fair bit.
There's a bit of a trend on these threads to grasp at straws.

borntobequiet · 21/12/2019 04:53

Thanks Grinchly love your cat!

chatongris · 21/12/2019 07:48

Unless the 'brexit is done' brainwash works. If people are truly relieved that the whole topic is dead there will be no need to rock the boat. Switzerland would suit banks I assume and there would be some control over workers' freedom of movement

This is completely wrong unfortunately - firstly Switzerland has full FoM and is in Schenghen. Secondly it has a customs border with the U.K.!

There is zero chance of Switzerland without FoM.

I have seen it suggested that Johnson may seek to do some sort of bare bones agreement with a long standstill implementation period (i.e. that he will seek a transition that is not a transition allowing the 11 months to leave to be respected). How realistic that is I don't know. But IMO there is at least a chance that we remain effectively an EU satellite with FoM for much longer than anyone is expecting.

chatongris · 21/12/2019 07:49

Erratum "A customs border with the EU "

It's been a long week!

lonelyplanetmum · 21/12/2019 08:15

But IMO there is at least a chance that we remain effectively an EU satellite with FoM for much longer than anyone is expecting.

That's something I can't figure out either. Once we have a new (worse) trading relationship- the job is done and the new Tory voters go back to their old loyalties.
Surely it is therefore in Boris Johnson's interest for the transition to be as long as possible.Whilst there are still excuses about a job to be done then there are still reasons to say the new voters need to keep the current lot in place?

Peregrina · 21/12/2019 08:42

Once we have a new (worse) trading relationship- the job is done and the new Tory voters go back to their old loyalties.

This depends on two things, IMO:

  1. If the new Tory voters think to ask where the 40 new hospitals and 50,000 nurses are, especially if their own local A&E or maternity hospital has just been shut.
  2. If Labour gets its act together and doesn't elect a Momentumite, but one who understands the day to day lives of working people. In the sort of way that Denis Skinner did 40 years ago, who then became out of touch as the heavy industry went. So now it will be what do care workers or warehouse workers on zero hours contracts need to make their lives better etc.?
chatongris · 21/12/2019 09:35

Can you imagine how the ERG and Farage would react to a proposed BRINO?

Farage is a busted flush. He has been neutered and his continuing silence will probably be bought by a peerage.

The ERG have signed up to the Boris cult, and they have partially neutered themselves by allowing Johnson to remove parliamentary scrutiny. In any case, with a large majority the executive can more or less do what it likes.

What this means for Brexit is not yet clear - we don't know to what extent the ideologues in Johnson's entourage are prepared to subject the country to economic pain - but it does mean that the type of Brexit we get will be the Brexit perceived by the inner Johnson circle to be the best Brexit for their future electoral prospects.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/12/2019 09:53

This need careful consideration & informed debate - which it is unlikely to get in the HoC.
Something else to look out for in any new UK trade deals:

Zach Purser Brown@zachjourno


How the United States is exporting its legal protections for social media platforms around the world.

New U.S. trade deals, including USMCA, have had a highly controversial legal shield for tech companies inserted.

Foreign lawmakers are worried.

Section 230^ < see screenshot > has been called the 26 words that created the Internet.^
In essence, it’s a legal shield for tech companies, preventing liability for third party content.

And it has allowed the Internet to flourish.
Think how different Facebook, Twitter, Wikipedia or Reddit would be if the platforms were legally responsible for everything users posted.

In fact, it is fundamental to the way social media platforms operate in the U.S.

But Section 230 has become highly controversial in recent years as drugs, child pornography, fake news and hate speech have all become prevalent online.
Activists accuse tech giants of using the law to absolve themselves from responsibility.
.....
And now language reflection Section 230 is being folded into trade deals and exported.
Here it is in USMCA: < photo 2 >

Pelosi said she was disappointed she hadn’t managed to remove it from USMCA,
but the political reality of Democrats needing to pass something other than impeachment before Christmas meant Section 230 fell by the wayside.

Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer stonewalled Congress when they invited him to explain why Section 230 was being inserted into the deals.
.....
It's in the U.S. Japan trade deal

And in the negotiating objectives for a deal with the European Union

And, perhaps most contentiously of all, it’s in the negotiating objectives for a post-Brexit trade deal with the U.K. < photo 3 >

It also popped up in the US/UK working group papers leaked to Labour ahead of the election.
Ironically, a confidential leak that first appeared on Reddit.

But here's the problem:
Section 230 is directly at odds with flagship “Online Harms” legislation currently in the works in the U.K.

That legislation would make platforms - and their executives - legally responsible for illegal or harmful content < photo 4 >

It was billed as an end to self-regulation for tech
.... < under Theresa May >

Admittedly, there is a new Prime Minister in town, but introducing the Online Harms bill remains government policy.

Indeed, it appeared in the Queen's Speech yesterday:

"My Ministers will develop legislation to improve internet safety for all."

That said, if you look in the background briefing, the language seems to have been watered down somewhat.

It has certainly backed away from calling time on self-regulation and is now ensuring the "UK remains one of the best places in the world" for tech companies.

@DamianCollins told me that if the UK accepted Section 230
"It could totally undermine anything we are trying to do in creating laws that hold tech companies to account for content on their platforms.
We need to be clear up from that that’s not something we’re prepared to do.”

Whether that turns out to be the UK government's position remains to be seen...
While the EU might be able to withstand US attempts to export Section 230, Britain is in a far weaker negotiating position.

Johnson needs a US/UK trade deal ASAP to show that Brexit was worth it.

This is exactly the sort of thing the UK government is going to have to swallow.
< probably from several countries, in its new naked state >

Westminstenders: Penny dropping time
Westminstenders: Penny dropping time
Westminstenders: Penny dropping time
BigChocFrenzy · 21/12/2019 09:53

.

Westminstenders: Penny dropping time
lonelyplanetmum · 21/12/2019 09:54

but it does mean that the type of Brexit we get will be the Brexit perceived by the inner Johnson circle to be the best Brexit for their future electoral prospects.

So who is the inner circle. Do we know this ? From trawling through the press in no particular order ?
1.Cummings.
2.Carrie Symonds.
3.Crawford Falconer?

  1. Isaac Levido?
  2. Munira Mirza?
  3. Chloe Westley?
  4. Ross Kempsell?
  5. Nerissa Chesterfield?
  6. Danny Kruger,

There seem to still be a high IEA presence so all weirdly right wing- is Sankhar Singham still advising significantly?

Not Rees Mogg and co?

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/05/boris-johnson-ushers-in-radical-new-era-of-special-advisers

lonelyplanetmum · 21/12/2019 10:25

Feeling pathetic I've followed this for three years and I don't even know who his inner circle is.

CrissmussMockers · 21/12/2019 11:01

The latest 10DS briefing says we shall have no alignment with EU Standards. None at all.

So square wheels and egg-shaped ball-bearings, presumably.

ContinuityError · 21/12/2019 11:13

Farage is a busted flush.

Was pondering on what happens to the Brexit Party now. Come 31/1 there will no longer be any Brexit Party MEPs, so does the Party get wound up? And if so, what happens to any remaining funds? Do they just get distributed to the shareholders (ie Tice and Farage)?