The Brexit Arms: Here it is! MERRY BREXIT!!!

[DustyDiamond]

We did it!!!

We saw off Jezbollah, Mao-ZeMcDonnell & Head-Girl Jo 🙌🙌🙌

✊🥀

We got Brexit! (...finally... 🙄)

The HoC is painted Blue for Brexit & it's oven ready 😍

Dominic Raab is looking sexier than ever & will be returning for my our viewing pleasure which is the BEST RESULT OF ALL! 🥰🥰

To the tune of Slade's 'Merry Xmas Everybody':

🎵 🎶 🎵🎶🎵🎶🎵🎶🎵🎶🎵🎶🎵🎶

IT'S CHRIIIIIISTMAAAAAAS!!!!!!!

So we booted John & Jez & head-girl Jo-o-o
And we gave our vote to Bo-oris & co-o-o

We can GET THAT BREXIT DONE now...
We can start to hope again!
Now the Marxists have been consigned to the biiiiin

So here it IIIIS - MERRY BREXIT!
Everybody’s having fun!
Loook to the future now, it’s only just be-gu-u-un

Now we’re laughing at the Corbyn Cult implo-o-ode
And we’re snorting as momentum start to fo-o-old...

Coz we’re on the Boris love train!
And it’s going full steam ahead!
How we CHEERED when all those seats flipped BLUE from re-e-ed

So here it IIIIS - MERRY BREXIT!
Everybody’s having fun!
Loook to the future now, it’s only just be-gu-u-un

🎵🎶🎵🎶🎵🎶🎵🎶🎵🎶🎵🎶🎵🎶

Much festive cheer to all in the Arms!
🍾 🥂 🍻🍷

As ever, all are welcome - only one rule:

DON'T BE A TWAT!!

Note: I am a shit host, and not a patch on previous Landladies - I don't cook, I don't clean & I don't prepare drinks. I am a selfish bellend. If you want feeding, there's a microwave in back & a shop down the road. If you want drinks just help yourself 😘 - it's a free bar 🎉🥳🎈

Saucery agree.

I think that’s what I was trying to say ..but said it badly Holly.

I don’t necessarily think anyone would have voted differently but misinformation both sides was appalling...and the same wi5 this election tbh.

When you vote it helps to have a clearer idea of what you’re voting for but there are big money people with an interest in the results of things. In Germany for example political commenting and poking fun at politicians doesn’t happen in the run up to elections and German friends of mine have been shocked that it’s allowed so freely here.

How can you make a choice if you genuinely don’t have the correct information? In any situation...not just politics and Brexit. Fact is if big money wants you to vote a certain way and has access to the media they can make sure you vote in that way. So yes around 70% of my town voted Brexit and a significant number will have done so because they will have believed everything they were told by the Brexit supporting media barons. Advertising and propaganda works....no getting away from that.

Personally I hope and have always thought that it won’t be as bad as some Remainers think it will be nor as rosy as some Leavers think. I believe there will be a happy medium with some positives and negatives.

The positives will be great for everyone, the negatives will be bad for the small minority who feel forgotten and blamed this on the EU.

Boris Johnson now has a great opportunity to change things for the positive and he has to consider the minority who think the EU is to blame for all their problems. I don’t consider any of that minority to be on this thread by the way,

Also agree that the Tories need to be ruthless about stamping down on shitty behaviour & purging any pockets of far right infiltration

Unfortunately that is precisely what I don't trust them with.

throwing out a controversial question towards the end of the thread...

would you be friends with someone if you found out they were a member of Britain First?

I never thought I'd ask this. But I found out, through an internet search, that someone who really helped me when my dad died, is a member. And she did have a best friend for years who is not white....they have recently fallen out, and she's fallen out with a lot of friends apparently, over what she says are "political differences".

so I googled and yes....that's what I found.

Would I be 'friends'...?

Probs not, no - but in the sense that I wouldn't go out of my way to interact with them. I wouldn't make a big deal out of 'terminating the friendship' though

Britain First did a lot of subversive stuff though via social media - mixed in seemingly reasonable stuff (eg pro military veteran) with the nastier stuff, so a lot of people blindly (& unthinkingly) shared stuff on fb for eg that they'd produced

I'm on a few veterans & armed forces groups & Britain first stuff is always called out - only a few people in the beginning (years ago now) but very quickly the majority of people cottoned on to who they really were & what their motivations really were & now I very rarely, if ever, see their output being shared

It's a difficult one because by falling out with people it just pushes them further towards the extremes as their bubble becomes smaller & more of an echo chamber

It's better (I think) to just disagree firmly or call out as & when things arise, and also do an ongoing, low key push from the opposing viewpoint in a bid to keep them from getting sucked further into the shit & extremes

Holly sums it all up perfectly for me.

My decision was, oh roughly, 43 years in the making but I read widely before I voted in the referendum: all viewpoints right across the domestic spectrum as well as the view from Europe via Corriere Della Sera, La Reppublica, Le Figaro and Le Monde.

If you have never read Le Monde, you will never appreciate what a test of endurance that was. It's the Guardian but without the banter or the jokes.

In the end, none of it mattered a jot. Self-determination was the only thing that truly mattered to me.

In other news, Anna Soubry has announced that the Changey-Wotsit Party is being disbanded. Not having elected representatives, activists, supporters or a cat in hell's chance does tend to have a dampening effect on a party. It's a pity in some ways. When it was first set up - pitched at moderate Labour without the anti-semitism - it looked promising but it muddied its own pitch when it signed up Conservatives including one who was a cheerleader for austerity.

As this thread draws to a close....

Dusty I wouldn't make a big deal. Just stretch out the time between the next meeting....

and as she's helped me so much, I absolutely would help her.

How can you make a choice if you genuinely don’t have the correct information

Well I guess the reality is that we can make decisions without information. We can use gut instinct, opinion, theories or our own experiences to make those decisions. Using data, information and knowledge is obviously preferential but you cannot force people to make choices this way. Add in our biases and yes you have a less then perfect approach to making a decision. That's the human factor. Not everyone is wired to be analytical, detailed and considered. Some of us are impulsive, bigger picture and base decisions on our gut. Does that mean we are wrong? Is our vote some how lesser as a result?

I don't agree the media have a hold over the vast electoral. I think its chicken and egg personally. Print media is on the decline, so to keep selling papers they print in line with that people are thinking and feeling. Otherwise people will stop buying them? Yes there will be opinion pieces and slants on the news which will influence to some degree, but I also think you cannot underestimate the extent to which people already have their views and opinions formed by experiences, personality, upbringing, family, friends and so on. People are able to get their news from a wide range of sources these days, so I'm not personally sold on this idea the media have us all completely over the thumb.

I agree a longer 'silence' period before voting would be a good idea however, as I think its gets too 'noisy' before polling day. It would be good to have 48 hours to allow voters to reflect without any political campaigning. How you enforce that on social media and forums like this I'm not sure however.

If anyone is interested in 'bias' this infographic shows the spectrum of different biases. I think its really interesting because there are so many and as humans we are all carry some of these to a certain degree.

www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/cognitive-bias-infographic.html

Sorry for long post as the thread ends... I'm glad we'll continue the good discussion onto the next thread though!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3773449-Brexit-Arms-Out-with-the-old-and-in-with-the-new?watched=1

Linky to new thread😊

Britain First?

I am friends with Remainers and Labour supporters, even find I have some common ground with them. BF no. Diehard la-la-la hate-filled blame-the-Jews Corbynistas, no. I am finding that their entrenched worldview is a lens through which all human interaction is interpreted and - more importantly - misinterpreted. Trying to hack through the thicket of intolerance is just too exhausting.

Sorry, Autumn, that must have been quite upsetting for you to discover that.

Some people can be persuaded. Some cannot. Sorry.

Singing so for you there's no redemption?

Do you feel the same about the EDL?

genuinely interested in views. Sorry to veer off politics, but I am conscious that, when I used to be a hermit, after dad died it became "everyone who will help me with my mum is welcome" and it's possible some dubious individuals have entered my life since then!

there's no redemption?

It's a bit more nuanced than that, Autumn, and hard to explain without going into all sorts of personal and family history but I've spent so many years trying to be a team-builder and peacemaker and pourer-of-oil-on-troubled-waters and all it did was wear me down. I've reached the age where I just think that life's too short. There are givers and takers in this world, radiators and drains. Some change. Some don't. I'll offer anyone a helping hand at least once and I'll give anyone the benefit of the doubt at least once but whereas before, when I would keep trying and trying, now I just figure that actually there comes a point when you've done enough and have to walk away.

Not explaining that very well, I know, but it's hard to do more without outing myself.

EDL, same as BF, by the way. I abhor extremism of any kind because its starting point is by dehumanising people and that's a red line for me. That doesn't mean I would treat people who hold those beliefs with anything other than politeness and courtesy. I just wouldn't expend any emotional investment on them.

I am so sorry for you losing your dad. 💐 I lost mine too, very recently, and it makes you raw and vulnerable in a way that you didn't anticipate. I'm glad you have your mum though and that you can be a comfort and support to each other.

Singing

thanks. It's more that I have been making connections with dodgy people so I don't have to cope with mum alone.

I think that I will just quietly phase her out but as I say, I will return favours if needed because I do want to repay her kindness.

Singing sorry for your loss xx

Its definitely a tricky one Autumn

I think that I will just quietly phase her out but as I say, I will return favours if needed because I do want to repay her kindness.

This is probs the easiest way

I understand where Lily's coming from though especially re emotional investment

It's not your job or responsibility to manage your friend or to 'save her from the dark side' (sort of thing)

It's especially hard because she was there for you when you needed it 😟

It's really not a terrible thing to put yourself first though, regardless of how lovely someone has been to you in the past 💐

Certainly don't use up emotional energy on worrying about it - what will be will be, and life is too precious to be wasted walking on eggshells xx

💐 to you both for your losses xxx

Dusty I wasn't thinking of saving her - it's more that I'm worried about who she really is and who she says she is, IYSWIM.

Plus we have many things in common. But after I googled her I have this gut feeling of "no".

It’s a tricky one Autumn💐 people change and not always for the better.

I find in difficult situations that gut instinct is quite often right.

But after I googled her I have this gut feeling of "no".

I'd listen to your instinct, Autumn. She is either being dishonest with herself or dishonest with her new friends or dishonest with you. Whichever way, she can't be relied upon. So, yes, just slowly disappear over the horizon, no drama, no fuss. You have to keep yourself safe.

Dusty, this has been a fantastic thread - thank you for your steadfast stewardship and your memes and your adroit handling of the ploppers and flashers.

Onwards and upwards with the new thread!

As this thread draws to a close just wanted to say thanks to all the contributors. Haven’t added much myself but enjoyed reading from the sidelines.
Oh, and thanks for the ‘memeories’.

I hope that Brexit brings you all the things you hope for

especially a new scapegoat once the EU is no longer an issue