Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westminsterenders: Talent or Colour

988 replies

FishesaPlenty · 06/12/2019 16:49

RTB and BCF are presumably busy with more important things. I'm clearly not qualified to start a Westminsterenders thread - but somebody has to take control and collect the waifs and strays.

The party of no talent want to introduce no colour into our lives.

6 days to the election.

Johnson is still a liar.

Corbyn is still apparently loved by Labour members and hated by everyone else.

Swinson is still a charming PTA chair.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
33
CendrillonSings · 08/12/2019 14:59

BigChoc understands all of it. But - frankly - she has a brain the size of a small planet.

She certainly understands it well enough to advocate voting Labour in a country where she no longer lives, but Conservative (CDU) where she actually does...

I’m happy to follow that example. Wink

ListeningQuietly · 08/12/2019 14:59

colouring - the LedByDonkeys FB feed is being shared very widely :-)

Jason118 · 08/12/2019 15:14

It's not necessarily about who you support, it's about explaining the various positions taken by the parties, scrutinising their policies and statements, looking at recent track records eg are they now proposing something completely different than in their recent history, and examining the motives behind their recent actions. Many voters are led toward voting in isolation, thinking their vote is just about them, without thinking how the country will function as a whole. There is too much 'personal nationalism' where each man/woman is an island.

stripeypillowcase · 08/12/2019 15:18

the cdu in germany is very different to the conservatives in the uk though.

and even if a british person doesn't live in the uk (anymore), the outcome of this ge and brexit (whatever form it will take) will affect them greatly.

CendrillonSings · 08/12/2019 16:05

I know, I just enjoy the (apparent) discrepancy.

DGRossetti · 08/12/2019 16:07

Who was it that said democracy isn't great, but it beats the hell out of the alternative? Or something along those lines.

It's oft attributed to Churchill (see "Churchillian pull" ....) but I think even he admitted it was an old trope.

mybrainhurtsalot · 08/12/2019 16:13

Carole Cadwalladr
@carolecadwalla
·
21h
The firehose is switched on this w'end. Millions of ads from unknown & shadowy groups will be targeted at voters in key marginals. We need total on ban Facebook political ads. But in meantime, help
@whotargetsme
who are helping journalists shine small beam of light into the murk
Quote Tweet

Who Targets Me
@WhoTargetsMe
· 21h
Psst... Do us a favour... Give whotargets.me/install a share. It'd be great if we could get another thousand users in marginal constituencies in the final week.

Thanks for all your support!

DGRossetti · 08/12/2019 16:14

The implication that it is a good thing that elderly people who may (or may not, of course) vote Conservative won't get the opportunity to do so

However that does raise a very serious - if distasteful - point about the fact that for some people, the duration of their vote (nominally 5 years) is likely to outlast them.

Viewed against that backdrop, the sudden aversion of parts of the electorate to immigration - which could also import younger voters might make more sense.

DGRossetti · 08/12/2019 16:24

DGR, even without much time, I might have had to comment that I was looking forward to seeing the percentage result. What kind of constituency is it?

Home Grin

Any other day, and he would have had the full treatment. Invited in for tea and made to explain (several times) whatever it was, in order to ensure he couldn't get anywhere near someone whose mind he might be able to sway. But it wasn't a good time. But I was amused by the playground tactic of trying to make me feel left out for not choosing conservative. 80% being an interesting quotient of not so huge as to be an obvious lie, and not so little as to be embarrassing or suggest they were struggling.

The best response was the one I thought of when DW asked who was at the door .... wow, 80% you say ? Well you certainly don't need my vote then. Good day..

One thing about canvassing at this time of year, is front doors don't get left open for long.

longtimelurkerhelen · 08/12/2019 16:25

Yet another pearl of wisdom from our leader.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-female-suffrage-women-cars-oxford-video-social-media-a9237281.html

OhYouBadBadKitten · 08/12/2019 16:26

I am full of rage this afternoon. Angry that this close to christmas I'm out dodging the rain and the wind trying to deliver leaflets to people who just hand them back to me.

But I'm especially angry with the local Tories who have turned full troll, who are outright making up outrageous lies locally, and making stupid memes about our candidate. To them - just fuck off and grow up you twat faced arses.

squid4 · 08/12/2019 16:28

www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/people/it-was-chaos-shocking-photo-shows-leeds-four-year-old-suspected-pneumonia-forced-sleep-floor-lgi-due-lack-beds-1334909

This is becoming the norm in my experience

None of the tories on this thread have ever spoken of A&E. Or the homeless. Or foodbanks.

squid4 · 08/12/2019 16:30

Most people waiting in A&E waiting rooms and corridors, and for ambulances, and in ambulances waiting to come into A&E because there are no staff to handover to, are ill. Some of them are extremely sick. We are breaking. It's only early December.

squid4 · 08/12/2019 16:34

I am seeing avoidable death due to waiting / inability to discharge home with social care cuts, all the time. All the time.

thecatfromjapan · 08/12/2019 16:39

Democracy is great, DGR.

But what we are looking at is democracy breaking.

It's as though the Far Right have been reading Trotsky, and are employing Trotskyist tactics.

DGRossetti · 08/12/2019 16:54

Democracy is great, DGR.

Well, it's less shit than some systems, certainly ...

But what we are looking at is democracy breaking.

Hmm a statement which presupposes we had democracy to lose in the first place. Which is arguable at best, and not the case at worst. As we have now - belatedly - started to realise (well, some of us, some are just won't. Ever). There's actually a bit more to democracy that a few buzzwards like universal suffrage, free and fair elections, and so on.

We thought we had democracy. We got complacent. And now we're losing the few vestiges we ever had anyway. Ironically, for a right wing coup, it might be a case of "one step back to take two steps forward". (Can't quite recall who said that originally Hmm).

We had a crude implementation of what some people thought parts of democracy might look like hundreds of years ago. And even when that system was being cobbled together, it wasn't so everyone had a say in how the country was run, but as a way of ensuring the rich were as protected from the mob as possible.

Revolutions, invasions, and coups appear to be an inevitable emergent property of the social nature of mankind. Which is cold comfort to those forced to live through them.

DGRossetti · 08/12/2019 17:04

An article that should be of particular interest to the main MN demographic.

I apologise for the wording. It's not mine, and I can't remove it from the link.

davidhencke.com/2018/07/19/revealed-the-271-billion-rape-of-the-national-insurance-fund-that-deprived-50s-women-of-their-state-pension/

davidhencke.com
Revealed: The £271 billion “rape” of the National Insurance Fund that deprived 50s women of their state pension
3-4 minutes

dsc_8416

Guy Opperman – the current pension minister who says it is too expensive to pay the 50s women.

CROSS POSTED ON BYLINE.COM

The fact that 50s women were robbed of their pensions by raising the pension age is undeniable. But the biggest argument against putting this right has been the cost – a fact perpetually used by the present pensions minister, Guy Oppenman, who quotes the £70 billion plus figure.

Recently I discovered that successive governments had taken a decision NOT to top up the fund as originally proposed by William Beveridge when the welfare state was set up in 1948.

What I did not know was how much money was lost. Now thanks to an extraordinary paper prepared for the National Pensioners Convention by a social security expert Tony Lynes,and still on the web, I now know. And it is staggering. You can read it here.

The paper written 12 years ago by a man I personally knew as a fount of all knowledge on the benefit system when I was social services correspondent on the Guardian. He sadly died, aged 85, in a car accident in 2014. There is an appreciation of him in The Guardian here.

His calculation from beyond the grave is that for every year that the government decided not to contribute to the fund it was deprived of £11.3 billion. As he says: “Restoring the supplement at its pre-1981 level would bring an extra £11.3 billion a year into the Fund, enough to meet the gross cost of a £109 per week basic pension.”

We now know that virtually no money was paid into the fund by the Treasury for around 24 years from 1990 to 2014. I calculate – and this will be a conservative estimate – because it doesn’t count the reduced contributions post 1981 – that an amazing £271 billion yes billion extra would have been in the fund.

This would pay more than three times over the money due to the women – and even allowed higher state pensions for everybody else now.

Why this didn’t happen is because politicians of all three major parties took a decision not to do this. They took the decision knowing that their Parliamentary and ministerial pension pot would mean they would be some of the wealthiest pensioners in the land when they came to retire. And the taxpayer would foot their bills.

They decided the pain should fall on the electorate instead. In 1995 they knew all the arguments about people living longer and that money paid out in state pensions would go up.

They could have changed the rules and informed the Government Actuary Department that they would deliberately build up a surplus in the fund – so it could pay out as people lived longer without changing the pension age.

Instead they chose the cheapest route – raise the pension age so they won’t have to subsidise the fund- but try and keep mum so the women wouldn’t realise what they were doing.

The villains are the late Lady Thatcher, John Moore, Kenneth Clarke, Sir John Major, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, Steve Webb and Guy Opperman. There are many others who stood by and did nothing. That is why 50s women have been left in this situation today.

DGRossetti · 08/12/2019 17:06

Get Brexit Done is an anagram of Being Extorted

hiding in plain sight ...

Tanith · 08/12/2019 17:24

"We do not live - and I trust it will never be the fate of this country to live - under a democracy." Benjamin Disraeli in 1867

DGRossetti · 08/12/2019 17:30

"We do not live - and I trust it will never be the fate of this country to live - under a democracy." Benjamin Disraeli in 1867

He should have stuck to novels Grin.

DGRossetti · 08/12/2019 17:37

Just time for the caption competition ....

Westminsterenders: Talent or Colour
HesterThrale · 08/12/2019 17:38

Peregrina Thanks for the leafleting advice!

Another celeb out on the campaign trail advocating tactical voting.

Labour-backing actor and comedian Steve Coogan has joined the Lib Dems on the campaign trail to tell people to 'vote smart and box clever' to keep the Conservatives out of power.

www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/steve-coogan-campaigns-to-stop-boris-johnson-in-lewes-1-6414784

Peregrina · 08/12/2019 17:43

Caption competition - I used to be Prime Minister, now I have to work in a Call Centre.

But wouldn't it be nice if Boris Johnson, Raab, Javid and Gove were reduced to a zero hours contract in a Call Centre?

ListeningQuietly · 08/12/2019 17:52

NI Fund
is where they go wrong
there never was, is not now, and never will be a defined NI fund

due to lots of people being forced into DC pensions, they have the concept of their fund
but national benefits do not work like that

If a government sets aside X amount for healthcare
and Y amount for health education,
chances are that X will never get spent
but it will not be refunded
it will be reallocated
or deferred
for the next generation

my kids are going to pay for pension and disability rights they will never receive

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 08/12/2019 17:57

ClashCityRocker
Who was it that said democracy isn't great, but it beats the hell out of the alternative? Or something along those lines.

Something very like that was said by Churchill, in a speech in the House of Commons on 11 November 1947. He actually said:

"No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

My feet hurt, and my left hand hurts, but I can safely say that I did not "target" the leaflets I have been delivering today and yesterday gout or no bloody gout. It's slow, but it gets one into every door (and in one case I think straight into a dog, unless he took it to his owner in his mouth after wrenching it away from me as I put it in through the bristles of the letterbox). The only exceptions in the patch I'd said I would do were the doors where the people who owned them were outside and said they didn't want one thank you. I only managed the area just round me, five hundred and a few, but it means someone else didn't have to do it and could do something even more hard on the hooves or braver, like canvassing.

The really interesting thing, to me, was that the people who were outside large prosperous houses washing cars like Audis and BMWs all said things like "Oh, yes, I'll probably be voting Labour, let's have a look", and it was only people outside smaller, scruffier houses, with broken toys and dead cars on blocks in the garden, who told me nobody round here votes Labour, no, stuff your leaflet luv, and the like. It felt the wrong way round, somehow, though I am unsure why.