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Brexit

Westminsterenders: Talent or Colour

988 replies

FishesaPlenty · 06/12/2019 16:49

RTB and BCF are presumably busy with more important things. I'm clearly not qualified to start a Westminsterenders thread - but somebody has to take control and collect the waifs and strays.

The party of no talent want to introduce no colour into our lives.

6 days to the election.

Johnson is still a liar.

Corbyn is still apparently loved by Labour members and hated by everyone else.

Swinson is still a charming PTA chair.

OP posts:
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squid4 · 07/12/2019 11:02

I agree young people didn't vote in 2005 or whatever. I was one of the ones that did, but I was pretty apathetic. Loads of mates didn't. I didn't criticise them or care or encourage them really. It seemed like a choice between tory and tory anwyay. I voted for little protest parties. I had an easy life which I didn't realise, compared to young people today.

It is a different world now. Which is literally on fire. They'll vote.

prettybird · 07/12/2019 11:03

In positive news, ds (19) will be voting in a GE for the first time (although he's voted in Scottish Parliament and local council elections already) - and Daily Mail reading bigoted MIL died a few weeks ago Grin (that's dh's nicer description of her Wink)

But her constituency was already SNP, so the loss of her non-SNP vote is unlikely to make a difference.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/12/2019 11:06

"There will be less jobs all round. It will start to bite the middle classes at some point not just manual labour type jobs."

We've already seen that a big chunk of what used to be the lower mc is now part of the gig economy and / or the precariat
Automation is increasingly encroaching further up the pay scale, quitely taking over more swathes of mc jobs, as tech zooms ahead

Even "people-facing" fully mc jobs like e.g. teaching, medicine are far more stressful and less secure

Tanith · 07/12/2019 11:07

"BCF the last time they were asked, 60% of under 24s said they were "100% certain to vote". This is higher than 2017. We can get that number higher."

I'm still so proud of my DS, who made a 400+ round trip from his university in order to vote in the EU elections - and I'm told he wasn't the only one.

They'll vote.

squid4 · 07/12/2019 11:08

I'm paid well (not what the media says doctors are paid, but well) but my job is fucking carnage. I reckon at least a third of doctors have been off with stress

thecatfromjapan · 07/12/2019 11:09

Digression: fucking call out culture.

What annoys me most about call-out culture is that we have the tools to deal with it and go beyond it.

As a GenX-er, I know that you can have effective, temporally limited, objective-related political alliances - which both draw on the strengths and circumvent the limitations of 'identity politics'.

How do I know? Because this is how the issues arising from AIDS were addressed, by and large.

Precisely because the issue was overwhelming and enormously time-sensitive, an effective, pragmatic means of political organising cane into being.

I always go on about this book - but I think it matters: Mouffe and Laclau's 'Hegemony and Socialist strategy' was, in part, a praxis that grew out of those movements: theorising them, describing them, outlining where they could move forward.

What they saw was a muscular, re-vivified Gramscianism.

It influenced many of the successful social political movements we see now (eg. Climate change groups).

There are short-comings: there needs to be some space created - alongside or afterwards - to interrogate the bases in which individual, ad hoc alliance groups are constituted; interrogations of the assumptions by which groups are constituted and how political objects are chosen.

And that interrogation has to be done in a living, positive way; one that sees it as a critique to keep action going and alliances being forged, rather than the pursuit of illusory purity.

This was work Anne Marie Smith was doing - but has stopped, unfortunately.

Anyway - it's all there, in history, as a resource and tool. But cultural memory is terrifying.

I came across a thread on a Twitter arguing the 80s were apolitical.

And I just thought, 'Where the fuck were you?'

thecatfromjapan · 07/12/2019 11:15

I'm very pessimistic about all of that, Red.

As BigChoc says, this GE is about who gets all the marbles over the next few decades.

The one thing I am optimistic about is that younger people are smart and switched on.

I think a lot more of them grasp what this is actually about than many people my age.

But they have to vote.

Because being a lucid serf in the age of the New Technological Ancient Regime is going to be fucking awful.

thecatfromjapan · 07/12/2019 11:16

Ancien regime.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/12/2019 11:17

"a thread on a Twitter arguing the 80s were apolitical. "

thecat They probably only see politics through the lens of party politics and didn't realise the significance of cross-party issues

AIDS was not a party issue
Climate change has generally been more of a left/centre issue, but significant numbers of Tories also saw protecting the environment as part of their "conservative" values.

Stinkyeddie · 07/12/2019 11:18

I think bridgen is rattled....
Juat been behind his range rover and at board at the traffic lights...alone (again)
Can't remember ever seeing him at election time before...

thecatfromjapan · 07/12/2019 11:19

Suspect you're right, BigChoc.

ListeningQuietly · 07/12/2019 11:19

jobs lost to automation
Last weekend I drove right the way across the fens - from the Humber Bridge to Peterborough
Mile after mile of reclaimed agricultural land
Tiny, tiny villages with HUGE churches
because those villages used to have large populations of grindingly poor labourer families
who have all been replaced by one driver and three machines (tractor plough / seeder / combine)

Some villages have clusters of caravans round the edge where the seasonal veg pickers from Eastern Europe live

but church congregations are in the tens not the hundreds

Immigration did not take the jobs
automation by the landowners did

UtterlyPerfectCartoonGiraffe · 07/12/2019 11:24

Cat Jon Worth recommends LibDem, but he also links to the tactical.vote website which... recommends Labour. I think I agree with his logic though that historically, Libdems have done better here (ignoring 2017) and locally, people are saying good things about the LibDem candidate.

Which is slightly frustrating as policy wise I’m very Labour. Head or heart? WineWine

squid4 · 07/12/2019 11:26

DP is taking the day off work to go to our nearby marginal and help get the labour vote out (i'm on a 12 hour shift orI'd join him). He's not even a labour party member. He has never done anything like this before, ever. This election is not like others. (Partly because of austerity - but also climate, the urgency of climate - we don't have another 5 years to ignore this!)

squid4 · 07/12/2019 11:27

If it's logically hard to pick I'd go with what you believe Utterly

longtimelurkerhelen · 07/12/2019 11:31

Some interesting news on polls.

twitter.com/centrist_phone/status/1202678707288264709

Alsohuman · 07/12/2019 11:36

I fully expect agesim to be legitimised at some point particularly in the context of the NHS and social care

In the context of the NHS I see that as a good thing. Keeping people alive when their quality of life has gone is cruel. Endless courses of antibiotics and hospital admissions to prolong a life which has become a burden should be stopped. It’s the last thing I’d want.

thecatfromjapan · 07/12/2019 11:38

That's incredibly tricky, Giraffe.

Flip a coin?

thecatfromjapan · 07/12/2019 11:40

If that was a personal answer from Jon Worth, he is pretty good.

Trouble is - if most people in your area aren't as involved as you, and certainly not involved enough to read Jon Worth ....

thecatfromjapan · 07/12/2019 12:50

The Sun has, apparently, gone full Far Right conspiracist today.

Haven't seen it yet but sounds actually dangerous.

TiddleTaddleTat · 07/12/2019 12:51

Can someone tell me why, in my marginal Lab/Lib seat, the tactical voting site recommends I vote Lib Dem?

Because the Lib Dem's are the most likely confidence and supply partners for the Tories. Surely to avoid a Johnson govt the best strategy in my seat is to vote Labour.

thecatfromjapan · 07/12/2019 12:53

The best strategy is to avoid a Johnson majority.

Which is the odds-on most likely outcome of this GE unless people vote tactically.

thecatfromjapan · 07/12/2019 12:54

Sadly.

DGRossetti · 07/12/2019 12:55

Anyone see Carole Cadwalladr on Russell Howard ?

Peregrina · 07/12/2019 13:00

In a marginal Lib/Lab vote for whoever you like. The main aim now is to stop Boris Johnson and his rabid right wingers.

I don't think the LibDems would do a C & S with the current Tories - the one nation Tories have been chased out of the party.