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Brexit

Westminsterenders: Talent or Colour

988 replies

FishesaPlenty · 06/12/2019 16:49

RTB and BCF are presumably busy with more important things. I'm clearly not qualified to start a Westminsterenders thread - but somebody has to take control and collect the waifs and strays.

The party of no talent want to introduce no colour into our lives.

6 days to the election.

Johnson is still a liar.

Corbyn is still apparently loved by Labour members and hated by everyone else.

Swinson is still a charming PTA chair.

OP posts:
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OublietteBravo · 07/12/2019 09:25

Oh - I think I missed a whole thread (I’ve been away on business all week). PMK In the vain hope I might catch up on this thread.

prettybird · 07/12/2019 09:25

I've just got round to reading this article from last week's Glasgow Herald. Fidelma Cook is an adopted Scot who now lives in France (as she explains later in the column) and her weekly columns, which are usually about what it is like to live in La France Profonde are now mostly sad and/or acerbic commentaries about the stupidity that is Brexit.

She acknowledges that she wasn't initially a fan of Nicola Sturgeon but has totally changed her view.

I can't post a link as it is part of the Herald's premium content, but hopefully you'll be able to read this (you might need to zoom in on the photo). Most of the regular contributors on here will agree with it Grin

Westminsterenders: Talent or Colour
Tanith · 07/12/2019 09:27

TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince says it for me, too. So I'll say it again Smile:

"I’m the generation below the Boomers. Me and all my colleagues/friends vote Labour. So apart from the comment being ageist, my generation lived through the hell of the Thatcher years, massive youth unemployment, and an endless horrible Tory government. The miners strike, the poll tax, massive unemployment, interest rates at 15%. Why exactly would we vote Conservative after 15 years of shit in our teen/young adult years? Please don’t make sweeping statements."

I'd also like to say that it first hit home that we had the Conservatives back when I started seeing homeless people sleeping on the streets again.

chomalungma · 07/12/2019 09:27

But, unless voter turnout in the under 45 group goes up then its a tory majority

As usual, turnout, and where people turnout is key.

It's interesting that some of the big Labour leave voting constituencies have low turnouts - so I am not sure exactly what that means for the results.

RedToothBrush · 07/12/2019 09:29

Interesting map for you.

Electoral Calculus has broken the population into 7 tribes.

This looks to be similar to what we've seen before with 7 new classes instead of the traditional classes.

They are the strong left, the strong right, the tradionalists, the progressives, the kind young capitalists, the somewhere and the centrists.

www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/pol3d_main.html

What fascinates me here is it does totally break this myth of the north. Particularly the North West. The map for the North in detail looks a lot more complicated it must be added but it does show a real mixed bag.

The 'red wall' to win is supposed to be Wales and the North West.

And that's why Johnson is pitching the 'one Nation conservatism' so much. Its those pesky centrists and the young kind capitalists that are the problem for him.

Westminsterenders: Talent or Colour
thecatfromjapan · 07/12/2019 09:31

Frankie When these threads started, Red used to discuss, at length, the changes to media over the last two decades - and how that was a contributory factor in the political madness.

Local media is gone, really. The local newspaper, with offices, photographers, printers, etc, is dead.

Now you may have something that looks like a local newspaper but is in fact a national corporate, built from a template, with a few local stories popped in.

As someone who did her school work experience on her home city's real, actual local paper, I really grieve for their demise.

It's contributed to the decline of investigative reporting and to the diminution of journalism as journalism.

An important entry point into journalism was the local paper. You'd cover local stories, cutting your teeth, hoping for a big story that could get you into a national.

The move to infinite op-Ed style journalism, rather than in-depth investigation and analysis is bound up with the decline of local papers. Partly because it has the same cause, and partly because their death has cut off a training place.

squid4 · 07/12/2019 09:33

Well I don't know about the sleep of no conscience, but I slept the sleep of someone who'd just done a week of nights Grin Hungover DP got up with the kids... he'd been at a xmas party... in our household, night shifts trump xmas parties haha

THE POLLS ARE DELIBERATELY LYING.
I didn't watch the debate because I had fallen asleep but I knew yougov would say that even before it happened! And that no one who actually watched it would agree.
Tories got nothing.
Also, I like Corbyn, and did ever since I first heard of him and looked up his policies / previous votes. When I say this to people lots of them whisper to me they like him too like they are ashamed to say it. It is not allowed to like Corbyn even if you're left wing apparently! That's what a number the media has done on people. What is wrong with kindness, integrity and compassion ffs. That's what I want in a leader. Other leaders with similar traits and policies would also be fine by me.

Younger people see straight through this, I hugely disagree with pp saying they don't read media so they might be more misled by social media stuff.

Coffee. Brew

squid4 · 07/12/2019 09:33

If labour get in, I hope to god they sort out an investigation into the media

If tories get in, it's basically 1984 forever innit

Dusty01 · 07/12/2019 09:34

Not sure if this has already been said: last night’s Newsnight was saying the Squeeze on BXP is done now so no more voters to be gained for Tories. The squeeze on LD is not yet complete and Labour could still gain another 8 % from there. So still possibility of hung Parliament.

QuentinWinters · 07/12/2019 09:35

I'd also like to say that it first hit home that we had the Conservatives back when I started seeing homeless people sleeping on the streets again.

Yy. 1997 was my first election, I hated nu-labour. But fucking hell, life was so much better under them. For everyone, but especially the worst off.

The Conservatives are screwing us over and trying to gaslight us that labour is the threat. It's infuriating.

squid4 · 07/12/2019 09:36

I read stuff like this from people who are cleverer than me (well, at stats anyway!) Maybe I'm kidding myself, but I'm trying to keep up the momentum (no pun intended) and hope until next week at least

twitter.com/centrist_phone/status/1202678707288264709

thecatfromjapan · 07/12/2019 09:37

Fuck me.

That's a depressing sea of blue in that map, Red.

London's like a little lamb, bleating for the rest of the flock in Scotland, surrounded by wolves.

prettybird · 07/12/2019 09:40

That Electoral Calculus map is interesting: Scotland really is a different country in terms of "tribes" by Electoral Calculus' definition Wink

squid4 · 07/12/2019 09:41

When I say the media, I also blame bloody london-centric papers like guardian who have been vehemently anti-corbyn anti-labour and completely dismissive of the rest of the country, btw

squid4 · 07/12/2019 09:45

I know far far more people who never voted labour before 2017 / never voted before who are now voting labour, than I know people who always voted labour and are now stopping - for what it's worth.

MockersFactCheckMN · 07/12/2019 09:51

The polls don't have a clue because they can no longer find the young. They go out into shopping centres during the day and call people on fixed lines. They cannot canvass online, where the young folks are, because you have no idea there who anyone is.

thecatfromjapan · 07/12/2019 09:52

You say 'London-centric' like it's a bad thing, Squid.

Take a look at that map.

Regionalist and anti-Lindon feeling has been weaponised (during the Referendum and beyond).

Why?

Look at the map.

Where is the pro-Corbyn, pro-Labour Vote strongest?

The regionalist narrative is a populist one - and whatever truth there may be to it, at its base it's not friendly to progressives.

squid4 · 07/12/2019 09:55

Sorry - it was a bit of a reaction to your "London bleating for scotland" thing... how do you think the northern cities feel??!

Tanith · 07/12/2019 09:56

"Younger people see straight through this, I hugely disagree with pp saying they don't read media so they might be more misled by social media stuff."

I do wonder if it's the years they've spent having it hammered into them that people online are not necessarily who they say they are.
Even JK Rowling got that message across in HP2 when Arthur chides Ginny for believing Tom's diary.

Alsohuman · 07/12/2019 09:56

According to Electoral Calculus I’m a Progressive but I’m well outside that tribe’s age range which is 18-34. There seems to be a lot of reliance on boomers being staunch Tory voters, in my bubble that just isn’t the case. I don’t know a single person who intends voting Tory, including my husband, a lifelong Tory voter who hates Johnson so much he’s spoiling his paper. Sadly Jo Swinson’s thrown his vote away in the last couple of weeks.

squid4 · 07/12/2019 09:57

My constuency voted 80% remain and the day after the referendum I had my London mates (some of whom were in leave - voting constituencies within London) shouting they wanted to divorce from the rest of the country. It riles.

thecatfromjapan · 07/12/2019 09:58

They're interesting on that map, Squid. They're not that red. Which is weird, given Liverpool.

Frankly, I'm planning a visit to Liverpool. It's going to be like a spiritual pilgrimage for me. I honour that city with my heart.

RedToothBrush · 07/12/2019 10:01

Death of regional papers is financially driven and down to the rise of the Internet.

Now news is click driven it pander to sensationalism and high/quick turnover of stories rather than looking at anything in any depth at all.

This election very much is characterised by that. Johnson in particular realises that the media have no power to hold him to account and when challenged by c4 the Conservative Party responded by threatening the channel's broadcast licence and funding.

It also does a lot to explain regional issue and the idea of 'the left behind'. There has been no holding to account in local politics for some considerable time and that's let complacency and corruption fester. On a local level people are aware of this, which is why there is an awful lot of disillusionment and resentment building. Not helped by the biggest cuts to the most deprived areas (which traditionally have always been Labour held).

Thus Labour are often resented locally more because cuts are most apparent to real lives on a council led basis. It's come from national level but local mismanagement, nepotism and just a general poor standard of leadership have been just as noticed.

Blame has been cleverly outsourced to the EU on one level and national responsibility pinned on local government on another.

If local newspapers had more teeth things might not have festered to the same degree.

What I find interesting is the people I know who are older / more 'somewheres' tend to still read out local newspaper but the 'young kind capitalists', 'centrists' and 'progressives' are much less likely to.

And that also matters because you have two groups - one who know and care about what's happening in their wider community and one who are somewhat disconnected to it.

Everything happening atm comes down to technological change, particularly the Internet. Jobs lost in manufacturing are mainly down to increased automation not immigration. The Internet has made us vulnerable - not to outside foreign forces primarily, but our own desire for titillation and entertainment rather than a genuine interest in communities and social cohesion. People would rather watch reality TV than watch something in depth about political issues which may greatly affect them 'because its boring'. Hence the rise of the 'celebrity politician'.

That and our dreadful political system where voter problems are only given priority if they are issues that are of importance in marginal seats. If you are a minority, unless you can display your 'woke point score appeal' (people are buying into social justice as if its a brand as part of superficial consumerism rather than out of more in depth concern and understanding) to a wider audience, you won't get time of day. If your issue is regional but in a safe seat, why should anyone bother to listen. It's not worth their time. The byproduct of the rise of the Internet has been populism.

It's all a potent mix and until someone starts to point this out and confront how it works against the people we are stuffed. That's why none of the major parties are working for the majority right now because they are trying to manipulate the situation for their advantage rather than tackle it head on.

The head on tackling will ultimately come from the grass roots. But could be a very long time away and not before the country has been destroyed in ways we don't yet fully comprehend and lack the foresight to see coming.

Because we are all too busy watching Strictly or I'm a Celebrity or some idiot on YouTube.

/rant

squid4 · 07/12/2019 10:02

I haven't studied the map, sorry I'll look more closely
That's my experience, anyway
All the 60somethings in my neighbourhood are labour-labour-labour to the core (yes I do know loads - one just came round to help me with my boiler - my neighbourhood is awesome!)
I work in a hospital outside the city currently and the vibe there is different

thecatfromjapan · 07/12/2019 10:03

Everything riles, Squid. It's meant to.

For me, I hate the anti-London thing.

And I get scared about it, too.

I wonder what's in store for London - the actual London, not the chimaera of the playground of the super-rich, which lies in top of the real Lindon of over-crowded housing, migrants, stressed services, people doing their best and trying to hold out a little love for one another on the journey.

Thatcher punished that London, along with the North and Midlands.

It scares me.

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