Westminsterenders: Talent or Colour

[FishesaPlenty]

RTB and BCF are presumably busy with more important things. I'm clearly not qualified to start a Westminsterenders thread - but somebody has to take control and collect the waifs and strays.

The party of no talent want to introduce no colour into our lives.

6 days to the election.

Johnson is still a liar.

Corbyn is still apparently loved by Labour members and hated by everyone else.

Swinson is still a charming PTA chair.

Labour membership would not support him at a third asking.

I wouldnt like to call it if im honest, because he has stuck to his word on pretty much everything he has told us, timing has been a bit off with some things but all in all he's done the job he said he was going to do so far, lets see how hes judged by the membership after the 12th

Thanks, BigChoc. I'm getting there. But still wobbly. That's a great tip about chocolate.

Just, you're a member - so you know more than me!

Chomalungma It's frustrating. I guess it comes down to the fact that Corbyn isn't a trained lawyer - or lawyer-ish. It's why a simultaneous fact-checking service needs to be provided now we have a candidate like Johnson, who is playing by Trump rules. ☹️

tobee it's vastly more divisive and nastier. It's a Brexit election - and it has all the features of Brexit. It's horrible. Just horrible.
And our media is just not geared up to cope with it.

I don't really understand the positivity for Keir Starmer. What is it that makes him more of a 'leadership' candidate than Corbyn? Is it age? Dress? Accent? Being moderate ? Background ? Sorry if I'm being dumb.

This is anecdotal but I do hear people talk positively about Starmer and invariably they are aged 35+, maybe harking back to neoliberal Blair days?

I really don't think Labour will ever go back to that. The world has changed. Sorry to those who hope it will.

The Tory MPs voted BJ into the last 2 in the leadership contest, when they could before the split have chosen people like Dominic Grieve or Anna Soubry

and even for the 2019 contest could have chosen capable and calm moderates like David Liddington or - younger gen - Tom Tugenhadt

However, as with the last Labour Party contest, the best candidates didn't even stand,
because they hadn't a chance

I hope that in the election to replace JC, we see candidates like Starmer and Jess Phillips standing and that someone of that quality is elected
I'm not at all keen on Rebecca Long-Bailey and I can't stand Thornberry - who'd soon be as politically toxic as JC, anyway

Anyone remember when Dan Jarvis was the great hope for the Labour leadership?

Maud Goodness! That seems a lifetime ago!

BigChoc it really is extraordinary about Johnson's winning the leadership when you look back ...

ABC is the acronym now. Anyone But Corbyn.

So place your bets. But we might be pleasantly surprised all the same what with tactical voting and the yoof too. Let us hope.

Just how do we get around the crucial issue that only a 'centrist' politician can / will get elected in the UK? Corbyn may have fantastic policies (def not saying I'm a fan of them all) but he'll never get the chance to implement them or form a government. It feels like a form of arrogance or naivety maybe to wilfully misread british voting sentiment.

Personally I'm depressed because with a slightly more centrist Labour leader, more progressive labour policies could have been initiated on Dec 13th. Instead we'll have 5 more years - 5 incredibly important years - of bitter social and political divisiveness and economic stagnation. And worse.

Anyhow, it's all a done deal until after the election.

TuddlaTaddle well, you may well be right about that. Labour's current direction is very popular with young people. We'll have to see how it all plays out over the next few years.

Past few elections have shown that 'centrist' is not necessarily where the electorate resides right now.
It is divided and we have got a right wing vs a socialist party battling for a majority at the moment.
This represents the electorate. The Lib Dem's attempt to capture the centre ground has failed miserably.
Where is the evidence that a moderate Labour leader would do any better?

It's not over yet, DrBlackbird. It's only a few more days, so you might as well spend them being hopeful.

Goodness knows, if Johnson wins, we'll have plenty of time to be gloomy!

For myself, I think one thing that may have to change if this GE delivers a Johnson victory, is messaging.

I hear what you say about focus groups, and sincerity, and authenticity, Just, but this GE and the last have been experiments in not compromising in messaging in order to win.

It's possible, surely, to be sincere, progressive and to take on board the fact that a progressive Party will always get a hostile ride from much of the media in this country - and to therefore take account of that in communication with the electorate.

Oddly, I don't expect that change to happen after this GE. In fact, I suspect the Left of Labour may actually double down. But it may well have to happen if yet another GE results in a Conservative government.

But ... we'll see.

We may yet be surprised.

The UK electorate may turn their back on the Mendacious Merchant of Chaos and say, 'No!' to inflicting more pain on itself.

That would be nice.

ABC is the acronym now. Anyone But Corbyn.

I hope you mean in terms of labour leadership post election - and not for the election itself.

If not, there isn't anyone but Corbyn except Boris. So ABC means Boris. its a way for people to justify voting for a bloated, venal, racist, corrupt, treacherous liar who will sell off the country to the highest bidder and cause devastation to the point of actual deaths amongst the most vulnerable - and claim they had no choice but to do it.

They had a choice. They were complicit.

A people that elect corrupt politicians, impostors, thieves and traitors are not victims ... but accomplices
George Orwell.

If I meet anyone spout 'ABC' in real life I will give them very short shrift as to precisely what they are and what they are aiding and abetting.

That's a good Orwell quote, Pretzels.

Re ABC - that always makes me think of "Anything But Chardonnay" attitudes - and how many ABCers will still say, "I like Chablis"

I saw it on twitter today and thought 'ooh that's good I'll use that' - and behold, such is the nature of our politics that an opportunity arose the very same day.

poster Don't you dare devalue yourself - you do a good job of defending the indefensible JC
Seriously, you have an important viewpoint, which some of us haven't met in rl

Also, your insights into the cruelty of assessments for the disabled are shocking but very important to be posted,
especially for those who have no idea what goes on

The pity of it is that Corbyn is not someone that people like a lot for many reasons.

So the Labour Leaning Vote will either be tactical or Tory. IMV anyway.

Events over the last few years keep reminding me of another Orwell quote:

"Whether the British ruling class are wicked or merely stupid is one of the most difficult questions of our time, and at certain moments a very important question."

Well I'm willing to be surprised come the 13th but so many voters are apparently saying 'never' to Corbyn because they think he's the socialist bogeyman. Voters that would've more likely voted Labour with a moderate / centrist leader. Lib dems have been badly let down by JS lack of palatability and some misguided policies.

Don't worry, the next Labour leader will soon be demonised too

LDem normally have very likeable leaders

Maybe the other LDem MPs didn't know her very well, which is odd in such a tiny Parliamentary party,
or just assumed that any woman would make herself likeable

Your absolutely right about, Just, BigChoc.

She is, you know, Just. You're a valuable poster.

I was absent from the threads when the LibDem leadership was going on.

I really wish I'd seen the discussion around Swinson.

I can't bring myself to be negative about Corbyn or Swinson when we seem so perilously close to the awfulness of a Johnson government.

Despite being very mentally invested in UK politics at the moment (and previous several years) sometimes I still can't actually believe I will be voting in Another GE next week. And that my options are so shit?