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The closing date for registration is this Tuesday

The weekend has seen the leaders question time debates.

Johnson failed to answer a question and the BBC edited later edited footage to change laughter at him to applause.

Swinson continues to prove that the Lib Dem campaign planners don't understand the electorate. They based the campaign around her and the more the public see her and the more she opens her gob she proves she's the witless headgirl who really knows fuck all.

Corbyn has now adopted a neutral 2nd referendum position. Far too late.

Jo Johnson apparently said that a good election manifesto is one people aren’t talking about 48 hrs later, and it seems that the Conservatives really have gone for that strategy.

Johnson had promised a manifesto for change yet of the three main parties it seems far from that. It avoids controversy for the most part, but also doesn't offer solutions to some of our biggest problems like social care. But with the Tories so ahead in the polls, the status quo and making sure they don't have a repeat of the 'dementia tax' car crash seems to be the order of the day. Because Brexit is going to going to provide a magic solution instead...

Meanwhile the Labour Party have gone completely the other way and really have gone for it and come up with ideas. With a mixed response from the public and press.

And I still can't tell you what is in the LD one, cos Prince Andrew...

This week should see the election come into focus as postal voting starts. As it stands its hard to bet on anything but a Tory majority.

Have we had this? Tory candidate caught out getting his mate to pose as a Lab-turned-Tory voter on the doorstep:

twitter.com/JerryHicksUnite/status/1198988173298294785?s=20

Fair point lonelyplanet - if they were just honest about the plan.

I'm not really sure what the argument for privatisation is - I suppose people working for a state body where there are no rewards other than a fixed incremental salary just get lazy - and when something is not for profit there is no incentive to manage costs?

So basically privatisation is because people are lazy.

I'd suggest people are people whether they work in a large state financed organisation or a large private one.

At my most cynical I find myself wondering if attacks on the NHS are in the hope it will fail and the result will be that people who can’t afford to pay for their healthcare will just die. Pension crisis solved at a stroke. Benefits bill dramatically reduced. Welfare issues dealt with in a generation.

Then I tell myself that nobody could possibly be that wicked. But if I’ve thought it, I can hardly be alone.

Please ask to have that post removed, Just.

To be fair, though, the whole 'New Labour' 'stakeholder' thing was a conceptual realignment of our relationship with the NHS. And, long-term, I'm not sure it was helpful.

At least Labour were open about their agenda at the time though.

It is probably correct that a lot of the anti-NHS stuff comes down to the fact that some people will make a lot of money from privatisation.

I do also think that for some politicians though there is a political philosophy at work.Its almost like a religious faith...all part of the " if we'd been at Grenfell we would have saved ourselves" superiority.

I just wish there was honest debate about the demerits of a national health service, if that's what you believe as a politician then sell the benefits of your view. If you believe that something else is better then why trick everyone with all this we love the NHS bullshit.

I found this (slightly weird?) Brexiteer libertarian academic who has written articles on why the NHS isn't a good thing. It does reveal some of the underlying POV that Rees-Mogg, Johnson, Farage etc must share.

Its a bit weird...but does help understand the alternative mindset a bit. Don't know why I'm trying to understand it tbh because (whispers) it feels a bit Nazi.

www.seangabb.co.uk/flc185-the-national-health-service-a-libertarian-perspective-sean-gabb-18th-august-2009/

What about that post is offensive cat?

NHS - I'd agree with posters who say we all (just about) grew up in a post war era with the NHS and sort of assume that it will always be there.

And certainly very very few people have a clue about what would replace it. And anything I've read from people who have lived in the U.S. give DIRE warnings about how it works over there and the level of bankruptcy involved to pay for medical interventions. And the number of people living with disability and illness because they can't afford the prices.

It IS gobsmacking that more elderly people and anyone else wit ha reliance on health care could go anywhere near voting tory.

Apileofballyhoo

Perhaps that's why no politician openly tries to apply the normal privatisation/ nationalisation arguments to the NHS because the laziness accusation is so patently absent for anyone who works in it.

Another one asking why Justs post should "be removed" ?

I don't get why it should be removed either.

It IS gobsmacking that more elderly people and anyone else wit ha reliance on health care could go anywhere near voting tory.

You also find yourself where the crossover between devoting your efforts to your children, and then to yourself lies ...

I wonder how many older Tory voters are doing so in the damn certain knowledge a Tory government is going to harm their kids futures. And I don't mean young parents with kids at school. I mean the retired parents whose kids are still struggling to work, house, cloth, feed and school their kids ...

To respond to the interesting posts on private healthcare, please don't assume that everyone who votes Conservative supports this model, I'd say some do and some don't.

FWIW I don't support further privatisation of healthcare, but I think I can understand why some people do. If you go private, I think you (generally) get a better service, because you are directly paying for it there and then, faster, better quality, nicer environment, the nice little touches, etc.

What I think people fail to understand is that (assuming you are a taxpayer) everyone pays something towards the NHS, i.e. you've paid the bill already. The only exception to this is prescription charges, which I gladly pay, but that does rather undermine the claim the NHS services are "free at the point of use".

Personally, I support this model wholeheartedly, it has the incalculably huge advantage (IMO) that when someone is ill, what they have to worry about is (hopefully) "getting better", not "getting better" & "how the hell am I going to pay for this?"

Where I start to have problems is the sheer scope of what the NHS does. It offers services that are way beyond critical care at enormously high cost. My own view is that the NHS is clearly insufficiently supported if it is intended to do "everything for everybody." My contention is that it shouldn't try and do that, and if it doesn't the funding level will more comfortably meet the demand for a reduced scope of services.

I don’t think the post should be removed either. The Chief Rabbi should not be getting involved in politics anyway, but it seems that he’s far from impartial on this

So the Chief Rabbi is a Tory? That's worth pointing out.

Esp as he claims to not direct anyone how to vote. Very, very disingenuous.

Michael Rosen
@MichaelRosen
·
1h
As the Chief Rabbi has stepped into the political arena, I expect the mass media will be asking him questions about his politics and attitudes to all sorts of things that concern the electorate.

Michael Rosen
@MichaelRosen
Has the Chief Rabbi expressed concern re: Johnson as editor of the Spectator, editing raving antisemite Taki? Johnson's silence re Rees-Mogg's antisemitic jibes, RTing of an AfD tweet, hanging out with Traditional Britain Group? Or Johnson's congratulations of election of Orban?

I wonder how many older Tory voters are doing so in the damn certain knowledge a Tory government is going to harm their kids futures.

I've mentioned this before. My Brexity FiL expressly said when casting his referendum vote, in the damn certain knowledge that it would harm his only kid's future (DH's), that it would still be worth it.

In the absence of a stated reason, and with a caveat that there's never any obligation on anyone to explain anything on MN (which goes for the MNHQ deleted threads ...) I'd speculate that cat feels the post is somehow anti-semitic. Or maybe because it's not a very good picture. Or an irritating font ?

Holly Rigby
@hollyarigby
·
2h
Chief Rabbi Mirvis is a Boris Johnson supporter.

He’s also an uncritical supporter of Netanyahu + the violent oppression of Palestinians by Israel.

Labour is promising to recognise a Palestinian state + end arms sales to Israel.

His comments must be taken in this context.

I've mentioned this before. My Brexity FiL expressly said when casting his referendum vote, in the damn certain knowledge that it would harm his only kid's future (DH's), that it would still be worth it.

For who ? At the risk of seeming distasteful, he's closer to the grave than his son, statistically ? He really is going to be a peach, if he lives on long enough to see the NHS and social care descend to the bare minimum and he has to wait a day for someone to come around and wipe his arse, because presumably his family will be working all hours God sends to stay above water.

@Justanotherposter - something I agree with you on wholeheartedly. I saw that headline this morning by the Rabbi - and wondered - is this about freedom of religion and racism, or is this about criticism of Israel's treatment if the Palestinians.
I wish we could have a conversation in this country where we could condemn Israel's actions in Gaza and more generally towards then Palestinians- without being seen as anti-Semitic.

Chief Rabbi Mirvis is a Boris Johnson supporter.[] He’s also an uncritical supporter of Netanyahu + the violent oppression of Palestinians by Israel.[]Labour is promising to recognise a Palestinian state + end arms sales to Israel.[] His comments must be taken in this context.

Reinforcing my suspicion that a lot of "anti-semitism" is really "anti-Israeli". The danger being that it becomes a little "boy who cried wolf" and when real anti semitism rears its head (and it will) we'll have lost interest.

Adam Bienkov
@AdamBienkov
·
2h
New Kantar election poll:

Conservatives: 43% (-2)
Labour 32% (+5)
Liberal Democrats 14% (-2)
SNP 4% (nc)
Green 4% (+1)
Brexit Party 3% (+1)
Other

we could condemn Israel's actions in Gaza and more generally towards then Palestinians- without being seen as anti-Semitic.

I wholly agree, being appalled by the Israeli Government's behaviour, does not make you anti-semitic. That is just what they scream to shut the debate down.