What is going to be better on the ‘other side’?

[Bearbehind]

I’ve long since accepted that Brexit is happening.

But what is going to be better once we’ve left?

What is the everyday Joe going to notice that improves their life?

Before the referendum, all the talk was about how much better and easier things would be
"the easiest trade deals in history"
"taking back control"
but now those who still support Brexit want us to be happy with an ethereal idea rather than any actual change for the better
and even then do not seem convinced of what they are expecting to happen

until they can enunciate precisely what they want
they should be told to go away and think harder

my point is that voters had a reasonable expectation that it was a once in a lifetime vote that would be implemented

Said who MeganBacon ? Which politician could absolutely guarantee that there would never ever be another vote on this question in the next 10-80 years ? Someone must have said or insinuated this , for you to believe it to be true ?

Cameron said so. But then he also said that he would stay on to implement the result.

Osborne:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35319146

Cameron:
uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-cameron/cameron-says-no-second-eu-referendum-if-result-is-close-idUKKCN0Y81VK

No-one can or should guarantee there can never be another referendum,, but you kind of have to implement the first before you have the second, no?

Cameron ought also to have known that one Parliament can't bind the next - so the once in a lifetime promise was a pretty stupid one.

But you could argue that they have been trying and so far have failed. At what stage do you cut your losses?

It's not about binding Parliament or not, it's about creating an expectation with the voters, who do now have a reasonable expectation that the result will be implemented.

Parliament has failed because they have put party politics and thirst for power ahead of implementing the result. That's just unacceptable however you look at it.

No I don't agree it's unacceptable. We had an election after the referendum and those people in Parliament are the ones the country chose to represent them, and a significant number of them were genuinely trying to use their judgement to do what they felt best for the country.

Some people yes, Johnson and Rees-Mogg put their own ambitions or factions first, which I would agree is unacceptable.

SonetLumiere, I think there is a reasonable expectation that those two reasonable expectations should not be mutually exclusive!

Peregrina I am afraid we'll have to respectfully disagree on this. I'm clear that the impasse is due to MPs allowing personal ambition to override any care for the outcome, and remainer MPs aiming to delay for as long as possible in the hope that they can eventually overturn the result. Only when the Johnson deal was debated did we see any real attempts to work towards a solution and that was encouraging (and quite moving, I don't think it's been easy for some very principled MPs).

Peregrina that fact that you suggest there is a point when people should "cut their losses" implies that if it's too hard to do for too long, you should give up. This opens the door to deliberately thwarting something for so long that you can then disingenuously argue it can't be done and should be abandoned.

Just remind me what's George Osborne up to nowadays ? Or David Cameron for that matter ? MeganBacon

it's about creating an expectation with the voters

Voters have many expectations which are never met. It baffles me why this particularly stupid expectation is more important than any other expectation.

Cameron also swore blind we would leave the ECHR, cut immigration to tens of thousands and balance the budget - all of which exactly the same people were cheering on four years ago as being the will of the people, and none of which have happened or will happen.

And yet still people are chanting the usual braindead bullshit about getting it done while showing themselves incapable of answering the OP's very simple question:

What is the everyday Joe going to notice that improves their life?

That doesn’t change the reasonableness of voters’ expectations one bit tho.

And thus the echo chamber is preserved.

The problem is that at some point, Brexit is going to happen and a lot of people who expected to get what they wanted are going to be disappointed. At that point, it won't just be remainers who want answers to the OP's question, but Tory/Leave voters as well.

What is the everyday Joe going to notice that improves their life?

What is the everyday Joe going to notice that improves their life?

Nothing much I imagine. But the everday remainer Joe won’t notice much change either.
So what’s the problem here? 🤷‍♀️

it's about creating an expectation with the voters

What will forever be a mystery to me is why people who voted leave focus on that one aspect of the referendum, but are able to ignore all the other promises made to them which have been broken or won't be honoured. Why is that?

Because the biggest lie & betrayal was giving us a referendum, & when it doesn’t go the way the rich & powerful want, they tell 16 million people to fuck off.

Every promise broken after that is minuscule.

So it's ok to lie about things being better after Brexit, but it's not OK for us to ask: what is the everyday Joe going to notice that improves their life?

You’ve asked it & I’ve told you.
Probably not much.

And?

So you're saying that people have been promised a bunch of stuff (£350m/week for the NHS etc) that they are not going to get, and that's OK?

Hmmmm! Not a very coherent argument. Nothing is going to be better afterwards. And?

Does the same attitude apply to much is going to be worse, ie the economy? Is there the same disregard of that aspect of Brexit?

Mistigri

How about you just draw a big circle & walk around it? because that’s all you do on here. Same old conversations again & again & again.....

Ps: editing my previous post.

17.4 million voters betrayed!

when it doesn’t go the way the rich & powerful want, they tell 16 million people to fuck off.

What does this mean? The successive governments have spent ££££MILLIONS in the name of honouring the referendum result, often at the expense of other parliamentary business.

My DD has a serious illness and campaigners were being to make progress on getting recognition and funding for research into it. Nothing has happened since parliament has been squabbling over Brexit. This is a real cost of Brexit to the UK. Over some pipe dream of how 'independence' is going to free the UK from the shackles of the EU.

What this is really about is that 17.4 million beleaguered voters thought they'd won a prize, and some are now just really really pissed off they've not got it. It could have been a bottle of shit shower gel in a raffle, when they were told it was Milton Brown. It doesn't matter. They won it and they want it. Some have actually gone 'Ah,it's shit shower gel. Nah, you're alright. I don't want it now'. But the rest still want it because they won it fair and square and they don't want to re-run the raffle and risk losing their prize. And they couldn't give a shiny shit about the people who thought they'd won Molton Brown.

It's actually that simple to them and I don't know why PP are trying to find a coherent argument for this very simple mentality. There isn't one. It's not about politics or a desire for a better (or worse life). It's literally just about having won something and it being taken away. Trying to reason folk out of that position is pointless.