What is going to be better on the ‘other side’?

[Bearbehind]

I’ve long since accepted that Brexit is happening.

But what is going to be better once we’ve left?

What is the everyday Joe going to notice that improves their life?

"I think the big cause of animosity between leavers and remainers has been the delay of parliament implementing the referendum. Had this happened the day after the vote we would all have accepted it, moved on and be working together to make Brexit a positive result. The sooner it happens the better for the UK"
It's not XFactor ffs. You don't just have a different lineup the next day because of a popularity vote.
A big cause of animosity is that there are still some people who think it is like the fucking X Factor and who get all nowty when repeatedly told it isn't.

Again. The benefit is that we will be a self-determining nation. That is not an advantage on day 1 but over time, depending on how that is handled and also (more in fact) on what external events occur over which we have no control, it may end up being worth it. Or may not. It’s a leap into the unknown and some people will bear the brunt of the short term disruption more than others. All been said many times before.

My earlier point is that remainers seem to think this election is a choice between the life we had in the Eu and something else, but going back in time is not an option.
Doris it’s all very well you saying people are idiotic to state the same thing over and over but it’s no less idiotic to ask the same question knowing you will get the same answer and then refusing to accept it. It is a risk people have judged is worth taking.

The OP asked:

"What is the everyday Joe going to notice that improves their life?"

The leavers on here are answering a different question because they cannot answer the one that was asked.

The only changes to most of our lives with will negative ones.

It’s a leap into the unknown and some people will bear the brunt of the short term disruption more than others.

I think this is why as a remainer I’m so angry. I have no choice but to have this disruption imposed on me, others have decided on my behalf that it’s worth it.

Some people (usually the poorer ones) stand to lose their jobs/homes/health/lives whilst those who are financially secure will be ok.

@MeganBacon you mention repeatedly on these types of threads that although you voted remain you now believe Brexit has to happen to stop the rise of populism etc. What you aren’t taking into account is that some people voted leave as they genuinely believe the lies they have been told wrt how their lives will be better after leaving, and that their current poor prospects are due to EU immigrants and laws etc. My PILs are two such leavers. The tories and BXP are whipping up hate with their people v Parliament narrative and ‘take knife to Whitehall’ comments. What do you think happens after Brexit, when ultimately the sunlit uplands are never realised and these poorer people realise that they have been lied to, and that they are also disproportionately suffering the effects of brexit? I for one think they are going to be very angry. The tories need to be careful what they wish for with the people v Parliament narrative. The only way to sort this out is a second referendum.

The benefit is that we will be a self-determining nation
Trading under WTO RULES when are the WTO elections
Governed by international treaties
Paying into NATO when are the NATO elections
Paying into and governed by the UN when are the UN elections
Ruled by International law
Still subject to International courts

So
What will change ?

Brexit is the rise of populism!

I agree Doris, but it’s something I’ve heard a lot on these threads from remainers turned leavers.

I’m amazed that remainers are still asking questions like "What is the everyday Joe going to notice that improves their life?"

We haven’t left yet FFS.
Ask that question in 10 years time.
But for now, we just want the democratic vote ( THAT WE WON ) honoured.

It is perfectly possible they will be angry either way, perhaps there is no happy option left. I don’t know leavers who will think they have been lied to if the nhs doesn’t get the money on the side of the bus, that was a manifesto slogan and in my world there is almost no expectation that this could be considered a definite, it is at best an eye-catching intention. But I can only speak for the bubble I occupy and read mumsnet mostly to get out of that bubble. In any case the level of anger people feel because some manifesto slogan doesn’t come true is in a much lower league to the ramifications of having a democratic vote overturned. I do respect the libdems position though because it’s clear (on this point) and if they won, it would be democratic, but there is no way they will win because remain does not have that level of support. I think the horse has bolted in terms of trying to persuade leavers otherwise and it has to happen and it’s now all about how.

I’m amazed that remainers are still asking questions like

I’m amazed that you’re amazed TBH

Having said that, if it really is just about being able to say we’re out of the EU, then I’ll never understand it anyway

Well I live in a different bubble, a leave voting working class area. In my experience the leavers that are still leavers, as many previous leavers would now vote remain, are definitely of the ‘yellowhammer is project fear’ persuasion and feel that there will be more money to spend on public services once we ‘stop propping up the rest of the EU.’ They are in for a rude awakening I fear. Out of interest, why do you feel a second referendum is undemocratic, whilst having a GE 2 years into a fixed term Parliament isn’t?

The other interesting questions to ask are “in what way does EU membership directly impact negatively on your life” and “when did you last vote in a WTO election or are you happy to have truly unelected bureaucrats looking after your interest”. Never had a coherent answer to either.

The problem with the EU is that you end up woth a lot of harmonising policies which must take into account its poorer members. It’s great for less affluent members but for developed countries like the UK it is increasingly becoming a hindrance. Obviously the eurozone is in trouble as well. The whole point of leaving is for things not to get worse. It’s a mitigation exercise. The shit show in 2014/15 is a sign of what’s to come unfortunately. It’s a shame because it could have been brilliant if it had focused of trade based relationships and kept power as decentralised as possible.

If we’d voted to remain that would have been it. Struck inside the EU forever. For better or worse.
At least now we can see how it goes.
If it all goes wrong they’d be delighted to have us back. We have lots of money & they love that.

It’s a win win situation.

@Limitedsimba123 that’s not what the FPA means

@dirtyrottenscoundrel it’s very difficult to join the eu and I doubt they’d have us back (Britain is also no where near as wealthy as you seem to think it is, not to mention the obvious that people would only want to rejoin if things got worse therefore less money).

I understand how FTP works, and that we sometimes require an early election. I’d just like to understand why Brexiteers accept this, but also try to argue that it would be undemocratic to have a second referendum.

Because everyone knows in a general election that they will periodically be asked to vote again, potentially quite soon if it goes badly. Prior to the referendum Cameron and Osborne repeatedly and emphatically stated this was a once in a lifetime choice and the result would be implemented.

Again. The benefit is that we will be a self-determining nation. That is not an advantage on day 1 but over time, depending on how that is handled and also (more in fact) on what external events occur over which we have no control, it may end up being worth it
I am genuinely interested to know, in what respect are we not a self-determining nation now/prior to 2016?

MeganBacon, there was a lot said during that campaign (both sides, before anyone points it out0 that proved to be bullshit.
I'll believe the "will be implemented" when we remember that absolutely nobody was talking about leaving the single market.

I’m “genuinely interested” to know what you think the Commission do if they are not having some impact on how the member states operate? I’m not convinced we would do anything better but the leaver argument is that we would at least be doing it for ourselves.

Out of interest, why do you feel a second referendum is undemocratic, whilst having a GE 2 years into a fixed term Parliament isn’t?

Two GE's since the Referendum, under the FTPA. The Tories didn't get the answer they wanted last time, so are trying again.

As for what Cameron and Osborne promised - they were not in a position to make any promises.

They did not get the majority they needed to implement the result of the referendum which is somewhat different.
Cameron and Osborne were in a position to set expectations - it was a single issue vote.

I can't agree with that Megan. At the time of the Referendum Cameron had a small but working majority. He chose to throw in the towel on the morning the result was known. He could just as easily have said that the results weren't his personal choice but that he had made a personal promise and that he would take it back to Parliament to seek their approval to implement the result. Who knows we might have had a healthier debate if we had had a more pragmatic approach, instead of a cowardly running away.

May inherited the working majority and then squandered it. Who knows whether it was because she tried to appease the ERG or because of other issues?