Brexit Arms

[DustyDiamond]

Welcome to the Brexit Arms!!

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#PrayForSally
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Jezza is so far off to the left of even Kinnock that the software probably had to go and lie down in a darkened room for a bit

Locally, rural SW, I saw an apprenticeship for environmental conservation last week. It looked okay, with the National Trust, but when you read it through, they wanted a young person to dig ditches and holes for three years. Sometimes with a digger.

Well, that’s pretty much a large part of what entry level National Trust rangers do? I spent years digging holes (not always with a digger) as an entry level degree qualified engineer for crap pay with long hours and no paid overtime.

(Reluctantly raises hand) , I voted for Blair as well.

According to some posters on here, corybn isn't far left at all , not to be them anyway

Don't worry, VeryGenuinequestions, it's our guilty secret!

That analysis is absolutely spot-on SingingLily. Blair in 1997 was a certainty, the only question was how big would his majority be?

Major winning in 1992 was a surprise, IIRC, he wasn't expected to win and I think the Conservatives would have been quite happy going into opposition then. My personal theory is that post-Poll Tax, there were many thousands (even millions) of left-leaning youngsters who deliberately hadn't put themselves onto the electoral roll, so didn't get a vote.

Just popping in quickly 🍷

On the working class thing (and the fallacy held by labour loyalists that labour somehow should 'own' the working class vote because the Tories are BAAAD! & EVIIIL!)

Latest polling shows a 20 point lead for Tories amongst C2DE voters

https://order-order.com/2019/11/14/tories-take-20-point-lead-working-class-voters/

In 1997, I told a good friend of mine, lifelong Labour, that Blair would win because Major had stopped listening to me and people like me (JM was probably too busy chasing Edwina around the desk). He refused to believe it so I went against the habits of a lifetime and offered him a bet. Took a 1936 half-crown off him. He was not best pleased.

Jeez, Dusty, classic blue collar voters. Just as you said.

John and Edwina 🤮🤮

Brilliant picture singing.

Guilty, shameful, secret but Blair exuded confidence and bubble and colour and positivity after the most grey, boring drab un inspiring bore... John major.
Who can blame us or anyone really??

Remember that first blast of Blair, and oasis etc... Alexander mcqueen, British fashion, Kate moss... Design... Industry... Excitement... Right old commoner wife from the pool.. Like us...

Sensible working people, who know that there are no magic money trees and how their household budget works, and that there is no free lunch are likely to decide this GE. I think this election is shaping up to be one of hard headed realism, regardless of the politicians' promises.

The question is: Who, if anyone, do I trust to a) do most of what I want and b) spend on normal priorities? Which for most people means the Health Service, social care and education. You have to be very rich indeed for none of those to matter to you.

With the proviso that I am not convinced that it would ever be possible to fund the NHS that can deliver everything. Not in a world where 10% of the population is diabetic or pre-diabetic, or just getting old. The NHS was created to deliver acute care, and while that's still essential and done brilliantly, there needs to be a parallel strand to emphasise wellness and self care. My DMIL is 90, mentally and physically frail but not completely gaga, and still lives in her own house, but she is bored and lonely, and increasingly refuses to get out of bed because there's nothing to get up for, except to sit in front of the TV. We're too far away (300 miles) to be much use; her preferred respite care centre has a vast wait list and isn't tooled for dementia/MH. And she has money to pay for her care.

Pint of Best and a packet of Twiglets please. I do so much agree that the "snobbery" surrounding the 'status' of the actual work that 'manual' workers do needs re-visting to suit our times - ye olde doctor/dustman debate.

It is a subject dear to my heart - the intelligence of 'doing'. It's something that I identified c.2000 and used 'hedgelaying' as an example.

It's something that is learnt by doing, best by being shown how to do it by someone who already knows - there is definitely thought, knowledge, and intelligence involved. Traditionally, not very well paid nor equated with being intelligent.

Then we had the Artisinal Revolution - which I generalistically described at the time as People from Islington with Degrees in Polenta; who would then take over the baking bread, pottery (now ceramics), brewing, cheesemaking, etc trades and for a holiday maybe go on a hedgelaying course.

Apparently, cleaning an excellent toilet hasn't yet made it into the Artisanal Top 10.

And X-M, I agree - the whole ways we look at, and work out how we provide for our frail elderly really needs to be considered within a completely new framework. That includes many more factors than the simplistic how do 'we provide'.

Hate, I live in one of those areas full of ex-Islingtoners who sold their houses and bought a property in a delightful village ( very cheaply) and banked the remainder into their pensions. Nowadays, they run our choirs (well) weave carpets and tapestries (beautifully) and make elegant pottery or raise rare breed sheep. Who now feel that, being better eddicated and more sofisticated than the rest of the village , they should run the show as they (obviously) know best. Which means stamping on building affordable houses as spoiling the area of Outstanding Natural Bueauty and the Sites of Special Scientific Interest. Which means the young plumber or electrician you'd like to work on your house (or for as an apprentice) doesn't have a snowball's chance.

Xing.

I'd be happy doing that at 90.

Off topic but having had been at someone's side watching them die.... No for that long or in that much pain... Full mental sharp capacity, brilliant brain.... Brilliant person..

I could not for the life of me understand why, at 80 in a terminal state of heart failure.. Said for 3 weeks prior to death he was ready to go... he had to die slowly.

I fully believe right now I should, whilst middle aged and in full mental capacity myself, I should be legally able to state at various points I'd be assisted to die at my own choosing. Eg. Cannot on most occasions recognise my own dc. My own dh etc.
Or terminally I'll with cancer or heart failure etc... Suffering with no hope of recovery!!

I've worked with people with dementia etc and they are so vulnerable. 5 care workers may be amazing but that 1 could make their life a misery.

I cannot fathom why we don't help terminally ill people die when they want too and how they want too and why we don't offer choice. I've been very involved in care for the elderly and I absolutely know now, when I want to choose to go. That would spare me, much much pain and exposure to abuse.

That would spare my children watching my decline in whatever painful awful heartbreaking way.
That would slate the state... Caring for me and my estate to pass on what's left to my children.

Sorry. Rant over.

X-M - very well described. That's most places round here - you're SW too aren't you?

Yes, GenuineQuestions. DMIL is ready and happy to cross the rainbow bridge, to be reunited with DFIL. But she's only chronically infirm and ill, so she needs to be kept fit. FFS, for what? Her life is no longer happy or fulfilling. She can't leave her bed without assistance.

Yes, SW, but not a fashionable hot spot.

And all of the above notwithstanding, it doesn't mean I like the appalling shabby, badly built little houses the developers are sticking into every plot they can get. They are building slums for the future.

If someone has mentally l capacity and chooses it why not.

We cannot really care for people that close to death. It's ridiculous.

Xing yes.
Lots of complaints around me about hastily thrown up houses.

Xing and Genuine I share your concerns having watched DM die from her treatment that was 'treating' the untreatable. She didn't get the death she wanted, and the waste of time, her well-being, and dare I say NHS resources that could have been better spent; all by following a futile path of unnecessary and life-quality reducing treatment.

However, these are things not for the Brexit Arms - because they are heartfelt things we have experienced - and liable to misplaced scrutiny and anger fired by the emotions of Brexxit. And these experiences we have are nothing to do with Brexit. Afterwards, hopefully.

Another pint please LL. Is it a serve yourself thing tonight? if so, you'll find my money in the dish behind the bar

I imagine that anyone living in the Lake District or the Pennines and in certain parts of Wales would be of similar mind.

Thanks for the reminder that these are not topics for the Arms HateIsNotGood. I got carried away. My last glass of please, and whatever you're having.

I’m not ignoring the heartfelt discussion above and I wish everyone well if they are affected by those issue I just have nothing useful to add.

I don’t see that many ‘reserved for local inhabitants’ notices in estate agent windows in the Lakes etc any more. Perhaps I am just missing them. But I have seen quite a few smaller houses going for silly money that are what traditionally would have been bought up by local workers and younger people who wanted to live and work in their own area.