Westminstenders: From Uxbridge to...? Part deux GE 2019 special.

[placemats]

New thread.

General election 12th December 2019. Results out on Friday 13th. Unlucky day for some.

So this election is unusual in that it will focus primarily on Brexit and referendums with domestic issues tagged alongside, for some parties.

Oooh, was that Johnson just repeating the “40 new hospitals” lie live on air?

fullfact.org/health/six-hospitals-not-forty/

Noone is shocked that many people still believe those claims about the Tories being better for the economy
The records show differently, but image is all
If even "Fuck business" doesn't convince people, not much else will

The number of threads I am behind must be close to double figures now but just wanted to add my voice to those saying that these threads seem to thrive on good, sometimes pretty robust debate between posters who don't agree.

Haven't been following what's been going on re: deletions on these threads but I think these threads are brilliant for enabling contrary views to be aired civilly. In the months I have been posting on them I have felt the need to report 1 post, 1!

@PicardJE (the one from that well known red rag the Financial Times)

the Tory election campaign so far:
^

• Cabinet minister Cairns has just resigned
• Cabinet minister Rees-Mogg had to apologise for insulting Grenfell survivors
• Bridgen apologised for defending Rees-Mogg
• The doctored Starmer video
• Whitehall slapdown over anti-Labour numbers^

Hi Louise I was hoping you'd be here during the campaign
We need a sane Leave pov

The threads do move so quickly though

Noone is shocked that many people still believe those claims about the Tories being better for the economy

Not when Labour is planning mass confiscations, crushing taxes, and nationalizations, no - it's no surprise!

The records show differently, but image is all

That's right, the voters are too thick to understand which party wants to take their money away, and which wants to let them keep it.

If even "Fuck business" doesn't convince people, not much else will

I told you that little mantra means, ironically, fuck all in the real world. Labour's entire platform is "Fuck Business" - incomprehension at and contempt for business and the profit motive (that one appeared earlier on this very thread!) oozes out of their every pore.

A 2-to-1 loss on the economy is devastating for Labour because it actually affects people's lives and livelihoods, and voters tend to be kind of touchy about those things...

Trump said when running for Prez that he could stand on New York’s Fifth Avenue “and shoot somebody” and still not lose voters.

He's done an incredible number of things, any of which would be political death for a normal POTUS
and only now is he starting to look a little - not completely - vulnerable.

I wonder how many gaffes until BJ's Teflon covering scratches away.
Is 5 weeks long enough ?

I really hate them too yolo. Bozo gives me the rage when I hear his pretentious voice. He always seems to me as though he's not taking anything really seriously because it's all a game to him.

And true to form he starts off with a lie. "I don't want an election." Yes you bloody do, you lying twat. You had a tantrum in the HOC because they wouldn't vote for one.

I really really hope he stands in Uxbridge and loses his seat. Grr!!

@CendrillonSings, you always cheer me up.

Out of interest, has anyone done a proper manifesto comparison/spending plans yet, between the major parties? I was looking for them earlier...

- Cabinet minister Cairns has just resigned
- Cabinet minister Rees-Mogg had to apologise for insulting Grenfell survivors
- Bridgen apologised for defending Rees-Mogg
- The doctored Starmer video
- Whitehall slapdown over anti-Labour numbers

- Tories ahead 2-to-1 on the economy

Guess which one will matter in the voting booth?

Hi Louise I was hoping you'd be here during the campaign
We need a sane Leave pov

Seconded. We don't agree but you have interesting things to say.

It's actually impossible to keep up with these threads: I read back an hour or two and just respond to recent posts (unless someone @ me)

I wonder how many gaffes until BJ's Teflon covering scratches away.
Is 5 weeks long enough ?

At this rate five days would probably do it.

and only now is he starting to look a little - not completely - vulnerable.

It's not really comparable though. The US opposition now has a majority in a equivalent of the House of Commons.

The trouble is, you weren't safer. They were good actors. I know but they had a calming effect. I've worked in a lot of schools. The HT makes the difference between a happy, productive school and a place of fear and loathing. They can make the difference through sheer personality and a calming presence.
I predict fear and disarray whoever gets in.

And if Trump looks vulnerable, this is partly BECAUSE the opposition controls the lower house.

Thanks BigChoc; misti and some other folks who said nice things pages back, prettybird among them I think. Been mega busy hence off threads but yes, will try and keep up while the campaign is on.

Wanders in
to speculate about how many of his funders Nigel will actually allow to stand for the BXP
and when the others realise that they have given money to a private company not a Democratic Membership party

I suspect keeping up is going to be the preserve of political columnists. It's a full time job.

Declaring an end to Presidential Politics. As far back as I remember Britain has had Prime Ministerial politics, not Presidential, PMs do have to be more of a team leader but definitely focused on leadership. Callaghan is the only one I can think of that did not take full centre stage but Wilson, Thatcher, Blair, Cameron all inhabited the main limelight with a certain charisma (whatever you think of their politics / personalities) and the ability to think on their feet. That is the expectation of the electorate and I suspect Tory members mistook Boris’s bumbling persona for the real thing too.

lonelyplanetmum
Thinking about the JRM thing more - a lot of the press etc has focussed on the 'common sense' part of what he said.
I think the more revealing part is the collective othering of the residents - the comment to Nick Ferrari was that " if either of us were in a fire, whatever the fire brigade said, we would..."

But that is precisely my point: he was not "othering" them. He was saying "you and I would want to run away from a fire, like anyone else". He expressed it badly; but think on: had he said "If any of us were in a fire" instead of talking to the person who was talking to him, would that have been "othering" anyone? or would it have been including everyone in what he feels is the norm of humanity, to want not to stay in a burning building?

... because I by God know that no matter how much the fire brigade had advised me to stay put, I would find it very difficult indeed to do as I had been ordered. And I don't think that by saying that I am saying that anyone in the Grenfell Tower who died died because they were stupid; I think they died because the cladding killed them. And JRM started out by saying that was what had caused the fire to kill people. "The tragedy came about because of the cladding leading to the fire racing up the building and then was compounded by the stay put policy."

I think that is factually accurate, and I cannot for the life of me see that it is in any way insulting to anybody who was killed.

But then, even though I started out very willing to think him a complete unspeakable, I had to admit that I might be wrong about that in this instance. And I would so much rather condemn him for things that he has done than condemn him for something that he has not in my judgement actually said.

TheElementsSong
My electoral priorities are:
(1) Brexit is Fucking Shite.
(2) The current Tory party are Fucking Shite.
(3) Everything else.

Totally yes to this.

John Crace
@JohnJCrace
·
36m
Boris has been talking for less than two minutes and he's already told three lies

Didn't they try that with Theresa May and Amber Rudd?

Only a day or two after Amber Rudd suffered a close bereavement ?

Hopefully that's not the same optic for Patel.

TheABC

Don’t think the manifestos have been published yet?

As far back as I remember Britain has had Prime Ministerial politics, not Presidential

Prima inter pares I believe.

Worth remembering that the UK (through it's courts) strongly believes in collective government. One-in:all-in, so to speak. Bear that in mind when you hear a weasel argument from someone who was in cabinet but "never supported" something that's now an embarrassment ....