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Brexit

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Westminstenders: From Uxbridge to...? Part deux GE 2019 special.

999 replies

placemats · 03/11/2019 17:54

New thread.

General election 12th December 2019. Results out on Friday 13th. Unlucky day for some.

So this election is unusual in that it will focus primarily on Brexit and referendums with domestic issues tagged alongside, for some parties.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
27
Alsohuman · 04/11/2019 19:34

Cummings is apparently still hanging from the Downing Street rafters, he’s postponed his operation yet again until after 12 December.

prettybird · 04/11/2019 19:53

I do hope that it's a serious operation Hmm. That might make me a nasty person Blush - but it's his choice to delay the operation (breaking his solemn promise to his wife) and his malign influence has caused and will cause suffering to millions.

ListeningQuietly · 04/11/2019 20:01

Finally it appears on the BBC
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50294569
(Russian interference report)

ArseDarkly · 04/11/2019 20:18

The Cummings op thing reminds me of the famous quip about Randolph Churchill after an operation where surgeons found and removed a non malignant tumour - can't who remember who said it but along the lines - it's typical of modern medicine to find the only non-malignant part of Randolph - and cut it out!

Grinchly · 04/11/2019 20:19

RTB Cummings is not a civil servant. He's a SPAD. They have their own rules of engagement. Whether he sticks to them or no is another matter.

RedToothBrush · 04/11/2019 20:19

Chris Prosser @caprosser
I’ve been thinking a lot about why people seem to have a hard time grasping the idea that the Brexit Party is more of a threat to the Conservatives than it is to Labour and realised that it’s a classic example of people finding conditional probability unintuitive (A thread) 1/

Specifically people seem to have trouble accepting that both of these things could be true at the same time:

1) Lab Leavers are more likely to defect to the Brexit party than Con Leavers.

2) More Con voters are likely to defect to the Brexit party than Lab voters.

2/

This isn’t because people are stupid. As David Spiegelhalter – one of the top statisticians in the country – has said, it is because probability is unintuitive and difficult!

There’s quite a lot of research showing that people are bad about thinking about probability, and one of the most common errors is failing to take base rates into account (e.g. that there are more Con Leave voters than Lab leave voters) 4/

There’s also a bunch of research that shows that people find probability much easier to understand when you express it in terms of expected frequencies. So I’m going to do just that, and try and explain why the Brexit Party is more of threat to the Conservatives than Labour 5/

Imagine a seat with 100 voters. The seat is an ultra-marginal and last time 51 people voted Lab and 49 voted Con. About 35% of Lab voters voted Leave = 18 people, and 70% of Cons voted Leave = 34 people (52 Leave/48 Remain). 6/

I haven't just plucked these numbers from nowhere - our @BESresearch data suggests the proportion of 2017 Lab voters who voted Leave was about 31%, and about 73% of 2017 Cons voted Leave. And this doesn’t vary that much by constituency (see t.co/oFG6p77Wa1 ) 7/

Lets say the Brexit Party is better at recruiting Lab Leavers than Con Leavers – in my scenario 1 in 2 Lab Leavers defect to BP and 1 in 3 Con Leavers. With 18 Lab/Leavers that means 9 defect to BP, and from 34 Con Leavers 11 defect. Lab still win the seat 42 votes to 38. 8/

These numbers are very generous to the ‘Brexit Party is a threat to Labour’ argument. At the EP election BP was better at recruiting Con Leavers than Lab Leavers. Newer data suggests that if Lab Leavers are more likely to defect, it’s not by much: t.co/EJXZWKYIEQ 9/

Now let’s imagine another seat, this one went Con 51 votes to Lab’s 49. Otherwise the numbers are the same: 35% of Lab voters voted Leave = 17 people, and 70% of Cons voted Leave = 36 people (53 Leave/47 remain). 10/

1 in 2 Lab Leavers defecting to BP = 9 people and 1 in 3 Con Leavers defecting is 12 people. Now – even though the seat is more Leave-y than my other example, Lab win the seat 40 votes to 39! 11/

To cut a long story short, if you’re a politician/journalist/canvasser/etc: you might talk to Lab Leavers and find that more of them are defecting to the Brexit Party than Con Leavers. But you need to remember there are many more Con Leavers out there than Lab Leavers! 12/12

Grinchly · 04/11/2019 20:21

arse, I think Randolph, a legendarily nasty individual- said that of someone else, but happy to stand corrected.

I am saving it up for judicious use, it's too good to waste.

RedToothBrush · 04/11/2019 20:21

Paul Brand @paulbranditv
BREAKING: The new Speaker of the House of Commons is Labour MP @LindsayHoyle_MP.

squid4 · 04/11/2019 20:21

A&E was grim today . Feels like winter is earlier every year

Flu is here very very early this year

Still no/minimal flu vaccines for staff in my hospital. i might just go buy one this week fed up of asking

Skim read some of the last pages. Someone asked about canvassing in marginals. I live in a labour stronghold and have been getting emails asking if I can help campaign in nearby marginals, whcih I'm gonna try to help with a bit

RedToothBrush · 04/11/2019 20:22

Bryant 213
Hoyle 325

prettybird · 04/11/2019 20:22

So Hoyle is the new Speaker.

thewomanontheshore · 04/11/2019 20:24

Who knows whether the operation is real anyway?
I keep on getting ads popping up, encouraging me to move my business to Germany (it actually says extend into, but we know what it means).

RedToothBrush · 04/11/2019 20:25

Lewis Goodall@lewis_goodall
Lindsay Hoyle has been elected Speaker of the House of Commons.

Spare a thought for the electors of his constituency Chorley, who have just effectively lost the right to vote and influence the result of #ge2019 as the major parties don't stand against the Speaker.

ArseDarkly · 04/11/2019 20:27

Maybe it's one of those loose quotes Grinchly, attributed to many people - I was convinced it was Winston Churchill who had said about some political rival but when I googled it came up with Randolph

ListeningQuietly · 04/11/2019 20:28

On Wiki it says that he is one of the very few MPs who has never publicly stated how they voted in June 2016

so actually the right person to take us through the next stage

ArseDarkly · 04/11/2019 20:28

Chalk one up to labour!

ElizabethG81 · 04/11/2019 20:40

He's my MP, RedToothBrush, and although I effectively lose my vote I don't mind as I think we're considered a Lab-Con marginal, so at least it will stop the Tories potentially getting in.

ArseDarkly · 04/11/2019 20:40

Apparently it was Evelyn Waugh about Randolph Churchill Grinchly - “A typical triumph of modern science to find the only part of Randolph that was not malignant and remove it.”

BigChocFrenzy · 04/11/2019 21:04

"Actually, as PM it's probably advisable not to wear a seat belt for security reasons - in case he has to duck down (not that BJ is very agile!) or be bundled out of the car quickly."

clavinova maybe he was practising being PM - because that story is from 2015 !

I can't recall seeing previous UK PMs unbuckled,
which makes sense, because I expect even for them, the chance of a road traffic incident is much higher than the chance of being attacked in their car.

tobee · 04/11/2019 21:06

I was very confused there because I thought people talking about Lord Randolph Churchill Robert Shaw who was Winston's father of course.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/11/2019 21:07

Some politicians do act as if traffic laws are for little people
(and some have come a cropped when caught out lying about it)

However, the laws of physics / mechanics affect everyone, especially Newton's 3rd Law

chomalungma · 04/11/2019 21:10

To cut a long story short, if you’re a politician/journalist/canvasser/etc: you might talk to Lab Leavers and find that more of them are defecting to the Brexit Party than Con Leavers. But you need to remember there are many more Con Leavers out there than Lab Leavers

Maths....love it!!!

BigChocFrenzy · 04/11/2019 21:18

As listening posted: If transition is not extended beyond Dec 2020, then it is No Deal.

Even the most minimal FTA would take a couple of years negotiation - and that's if the UK side don't indulge in cake fantasies again.
More likely a lot longer, with several years for a more ambitious FTA
Reportedly the UK is looking at a Canada Minus deal, but CETA took 7-8 years

Even after negotiations, it could take those 11 months of transition just for any FTA to be approved by the 27 govts and the UK govt, the UK Parliament, the EP, all 38 national & regional Parliaments.
Any of them could veto and demand changes, which means returning to negotiations and redrafting.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/11/2019 21:21

As listening posted: If transition is not extended beyond Dec 2020, then it is No Deal.

Even the most minimal FTA would take a couple of years negotiation - and that's if the UK side don't indulge in cake fantasies again.
More likely a lot longer, with several years for a more ambitious FTA
Reportedly the UK is looking at a Canada Minus deal, but CETA took 7-8 years

Even after negotiations, it could take those 11 months of transition just for any FTA to be approved by the 27 govts and the UK govt, the UK Parliament, the EP, all 38 national & regional Parliaments.
Any of them could veto and demand changes, which means returning to negotiations and redrafting.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/11/2019 21:27

Lewis Goodall@lewis_goodall

When Bercow, a Conservative, was elected the Labour benches cheered loudest.

When Hoyle, Labour, was elected, the Conservative benches cheered loudest.

Westminster is a funny place.