Westministenders: Slow News Fake News

[RedToothBrush]

Things have been slow whilst we are in proroguation, ahead of next weeks Queen's Speech and the EU summit.

We've been in full spin mode, from the likes of the far right and an unnamed source at No.10.

People seem to be waking up to the reality that its highly unlikely we will get a deal now, unless something significant. And No.10 has worked out the NI problem. FINALLY.

Anyway, if you have a little time this week and you are interested in the history of where technology change and fake news meet and how where we are now is merely things repeating themselves, Ian Hislop's Fake News: A True History, is essential viewing.
www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m00095hv/ian-hislops-fake-news-a-true-history

I really feel strongly this is stuff that should be being taught in schools somehow as its what protects us from extremism.

If Parliament was prorogued for a GE, the Benn Act wouldn't apply.

Could someone please confirm it's actually "tunnel" negotiations? I've not been able to find an attributed quote from an EU official with that term. (But I have a 3 year old jumping on my head so may easily have missed it!)

That’s very good @TheMShip, particularly the bit about seeing the direct consequences of leaving the EU as ‘punishment’:

What this episode also exemplified was how whenever these realities emerged it turned out that they had been warned of before the Referendum and dismissed by Brexiters as Project Fear. Yet, inevitably, their emergence did not lead the Brexiters to admit they had been wrong but, rather, to insist ever more angrily that they were right. Indeed, worse than that, by configuring each consequence as a punishment they ‘proved’ that the EU was a malign body and therefore validated the decision to leave.

Mship "Tunnel" is an unofficial term, which I wouldn't expect to see in any formal communique

Also, looks like everyone at the Commission and on the Irish side are keeping v quiet, so as not to blow this last - imo still fragile - chance of a deal

However, I found this:

mobile.twitter.com/adamparsons/status/1182623561216856064

Adam Parsonss@adamparsons*

Senior EU source inside Barnier briefing confirms to @skynews
that intense negotiations - aka "the tunnel" - will now begin between EU and UK

I saw this from Tony Connelly at RTE:

5/ Member states are hostile to the notion of a tunnel, and some annoyance that the idea is being widely disseminated. Today the green light is simply for more intense negotiations to see if a deal is possible

Sorry posted too soon. That has me wondering just how serious these negotiations are.

I did also like this:

twitter.com/DaveClark_AFP/status/1182632045396267008?s=09

Diplomatic sources say the pig is cornered, but senior officials are struggling to get enough lipstick on it

A tunnel is dark, cannot be seen from the outside, and liable to collapse.

Tony Connelly suggests it’s back to the original NI backstop

^^NEW: The UK appears to be drifting closer back to the original aims of the Northern Ireland backstop, I understand. This is the message Michel Barnier delivered to EU27 ambassadors late this morning following his meeting with Brexit Secretary Steve Barclay

If I were cynical, I'd wonder who is borrowing sterling today.

Some sort of incident in Manchester - knifeman and injuries

I'm a bit busy at the moment so not keeping up at all.

I've got as far as theories that the new deal will be the old, old deal with an Irish Sea border.

Wasn't there some talk a few months back that an Irish Sea border would also 'breach the GFA', in that it would alter the perceived status of the Loyalist community - much as a land border would for the rest of the community?

Have I misremembered or misunderstood that?

Wasn't there some talk a few months back that an Irish Sea border would also 'breach the GFA', in that it would alter the perceived status of the Loyalist community - much as a land border would for the rest of the community? Have I misremembered or misunderstood that?

I think it depends on who has the final say on it being a border. If the NI community as a whole are happy with it, then it's within the GFA.

If it's imposed by Westminster, it's a no-no.

The mood music so far sounds like we are moving much closer - certainly a step at least - to a united Ireland than was contemplated even a year ago. Which Boris damn well knows most people not in NI don't understand enough to care about. The fundamental question is what are the odds it will lead to Unionist violence in Britain, compared to Republican violence in Britain ? Or does that level of cynicism go beyond the pale, to coin a phrase ?

This 'in a tunnel towards new deal' rhetoric concerns me deeply. It distracts so much attention from the biggest priority (avoiding no-deal in 20 days time), risking opposition politicans taking their eyes off that ball, independent-Tories refusing to vote against government on further anti-no-deal blocking measures, and in all the furore making it easier for the UK to 'accidentally' crash out.
Additionally, isn't it established that the only legal way to swerve the Benn bill is to have agreed a deal with EU and parliament by 20th Oct (?), but then not take the further steps to enable the deal to progress into law? Were measures ever taken to plug this loophole?

Good cop/Bad cop ?

Hmm...

Somerville I don't know. I think that would be worse in a way than straight no deal because it would leave the UK in a legal limbo. But I also think that it is a very unlikely scenario. A govt with a deal agreed by EU and HoC accepted would be wanting to campaign on a 'we got it done' platform, and would be able to sell the extra few weeks as tying up loose ends. They would not want an accidental crash out after all that effort and making the choice to not go full Farage.

How about this for a prediction? A variant of the NI only backstop deal is agreed with the EU, accepted by HoC with a Kyle-Wilson style amendment for PV of remain vs deal. Government limps on in minority with opposition refusing a GE until PV is held.

accepted by HoC with a Kyle-Wilson style amendment for PV of remain vs deal.

Brexiteers will never accept any PV - let alone one which had remain as an option.

BCF stranger things have happened!

It's far more likely these talks will fail, either because of genuine inability to reach consensus or because the EU sees that HoC approval is unlikely and is thus unwilling to make concessions to this govt; or, if agreement reached, that HoC will not approve. I think we're still heading to one hell of a showdown on the 19th, and maybe even court on the 21st to force an extension request.

Maybe this was the plan all along. Bore everybody rigid with the process. Extension after extension. Then oh let’s just shaft Scotland and make a border in the Irish Sea whatever the population of NI think, most people will fall for it because they’re bored rigid with brexshit. It doesn’t really matter whether it will work or not or whether we have effectively broken up the uk or not. Nobody cares coz it is done.

That was actually suggested on 24th June 2016 by various commentators ...

We return to a question of semantics and philosophy that the Leavers - in their haste - managed to mess up from the off, and that's to ACTUALLY DEFINE BREXIT. I know this, because DW commented about putting a bet on in 2016, we asked DS (who is the gambling industry) and he came back and said "you can't put a bet on it, because no one knows what it is.". Which was warning enough.

So "What is Brexit ?" Yes, it's "Leaving the EU" we get it. But what does that even mean ? We already know that nothing would ever satisfy Farage, so he's already marginalised himself and his party. For the bulk of the British, good is good enough. (?).

Given it's now Boris in charge (which was the plan all along), then the answer to the question "What is Brexit ?" is actually quite simple: "What's best for Boris."

The brief lull at the moment is interesting - I guess various vested interests are waiting to see who gets shafted the deepest.

Brexiteers will never accept any PV - let alone one which had remain as an option.

Well if the showdown is on the 19th in the HoC - let's just hope there's enough marchers right outside to focus the minds of anyone who thinks just passing this deal without any checks is a good idea.

After all - any non- batshit brexiteer leaver MP, what excuse do they have for not accepting a PV- when there are literally a million people on their doorstop calling for one - unless they are simply afraid of losing? In which case they are standing in the way of democracy in order to get what they want.

Why the fuck should any of us put up with that?

Why the fuck should any of us put up with that?

because we have for the past 3 years ?