Westminstenders: Pro Rogues

[RedToothBrush]

The Pro Rogues plan to prorogue again this week.

The Queen might be challenged to sack Johnson. Or he might be forced to extend.

It depends on which newspaper you read. Either way it strikes you that no one really knows what's going to happen...

Jo Johnson was sworn in as a privy counsellor at Buckingham Palace tonight, which he was entitled to as a member of his brother's cabinet,

As a short term fix, is there no reason (beyond "convention2") why the Monarch can't draw on advice from the Privy Council (600+ members) directly ?

As far as I know they have all won an election at some point to the extent of being made a minister, so it's less undemocratic than the Lords.

And if referendums don't have a shelf life, it's hard to argue their election should either (especially since a few resigned undefeated).

Or am I just being naive ?

And that relies on (a) the postal vote being sent out before vacation starts; and (b) if it’s after vacation starts the postal vote will be forwarded to the home address.

They're sent out 2 weeks before, so you'd be looking at an election during Christmas week for most students to not get it.

And if you don't get it in time, your choice is to either travel to vote or vote at home instead. As there probably won't be anybody left where you're a student to proxy for you.

Hence why they should register in both places, so they're not disenfranchised by location. Which is WHY they can register in both places.

Why am I getting it in the neck for when a GE may be and where these students may or may not be able to vote?! All I've done is point out the system available!

Restoring balance

Just watched the very good series "Inside the House of Commons". The beauty of the buildings, the ceremonial stuff, all the old traditions, just the sense of it being a different world - it's very appealing. But I really feel that that is part of the problem. It must be rather similar to being at one of the top boarding schools. Except with a lot more power. I'm sure that bubble / hothouse environment, or whatever you want to call it, has contributed considerably to what's been happening. It really needs to go. Those MPs need to be pulled into the real world, insofar as is possible.

It wasn't meant to be @NoWordForFluffy - it was a réponse to the assumption that a winter vote would deter pensioners. I think unfortunately there are lots of people who might be put off for various reasons.

Although I slightly hope conservatives in High Wycombe find it really hard to get out and vote...

To be honest, the current state of politics on its own will put loads off. Combined with winter? 30% turnout time.

They're sent out 2 weeks before, so you'd be looking at an election during Christmas week for most students to not get it.

True, but if they have a postal vote at home it needs to be forwarded on, completed and returned.

And on the Council sending out postal votes, our most recent experience was that our postal votes arrived the day after DH travelled on business, 7 days before the European elections. Also made it hard to send on to DS for him to complete and return on time too.

@kingsassassin - isn't High Wycombe- Grieves territory?

If they get a postal vote at home, but they're at home when the GE is, they can just take it to the polling station.

If they have a postal vote at uni, they can vote before they leave uni, if it shows up on time. If not, they can vote at home (or, if somebody reliable will be up there, then arrange a proxy at uni).

They choose to vote either at home or at uni, depending on where they are at the time and / or has most weight (if logistically possible).

High Wycombe is Steve Baker

My dad has a proxy vote organised with a neighbour that he trusts precisely because he is often away for more than 2 weeks.

Fluffy
The trouble with the whole postal vote system is that it relies on grossly over stretched district electoral services officers.
The debacle of ballot papers taking 7 weeks to get to people in May shows that the system is broken
LOTS of people (Brits) were disenfranchised then
I suspect it will be the same this winter

Still following, thank you all so much for your contributions.
Quo vadis?
To hell in a handcart it seems.

Yes, I know. BUT NO POSTAL VOTE IS NEEDED as they can register in both places. They can choose one and use it if it works for them. If not, they just vote where they are. Might not help with the vote weight thing, but they won't be totally disenfranchised.

I am talking SPECIFICALLY about students, and students only, due to their ability to be registered in two places.

I am ONLY THE MESSENGER. Stop bloody shooting me!

European elections, DS’s postal vote arrived at our home address 7 days before the election - that’s a stupidly tight turnaround to send it to him and get him to post it back.

Not blaming our local Council - they were nothing but helpful. But 7 days is not workable. DH missed his vote.

So I see Downing Street has finally responded to the London Assembly about J Arcuri but have asked to keep the response private:-

Downing Street responds to Arcuri details request www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49979617

Brexit and the weaponisation of metaphor

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/brexit-and-the-weaponisation-of-metaphor-language-boris-johnson

“You get a lot of ‘the EU will trap us in the backstop’
or ‘we will be free from the shackles of the EU,’

....And I think that any narrative of a people breaking free from oppression is always very powerful at an emotional level.

You can see that throughout history.
It’s very visceral.”

Does the Remain side have anything to rival this affective impact?
“I’m struggling to see an equally powerful alternative narrative at the moment,”
....
“It’s not logic, it’s emotion. You know:

‘those who say that our best days are behind us are wrong’ for example.

Crikey, you can’t counter that very easily with logic.”
...
He says the fusing of policy and patriotism, which Johnson has gone for in a big way, is particularly difficult to counter.

To argue against leaving without a deal is now seen as traitorous.

Distrust in politicians also means that, at least according to the focus groups Johnson worked with in Downing Street,
warnings of food and medicine shortages actually increase support for no deal
.....
"It’s not about saying here’s how difficult it is, here’s a list of 10 awful things, the public aren’t going to listen to that.

But there’s got to be some way of being honest and up front.”

I get that DS can register at his student address and at his home address - but his vote is way better used at home (it would essentially be wasted at his student address).

Hence the postal vote.

But if he's a student, he didn't NEED that postal vote. He could vote where he's a student. So he wasn't disenfranchised as he COULD STILL VOTE. He might have preferred to vote at home, but he could still vote at uni.

People only having one address which they can register at is more tricky. Your DH should've arranged a proxy if he had plenty of notice that he would be away on election day.

Fluffy
Nobody is shouting at you
we are just pointing out that registration is not a panacea
and mention of those who were at Glastonbury in 2016 is not relevant either.
Its about making everybody aware that they need to be ready and willing wherever, whenever

Everybody at Glastonbury had no bloody need to miss out on voting. They just didn't care enough to sort an alternative. THAT was the problem, NOT their location on election day.

Nothing will solve voter apathy. Whether they can register in two places, or arrange an alternate method of voting, or just go themselves.

Maybe this shitstorm will put fire in stomachs. I think it's more likely to turn people off, but hope I'm wrong.

FGS people going to Glastonbury didn't cause Leave to win...ridiculous!

Plenty of the remain electorate wouldn't have voted because they would have thought it was in the bag!

One of the good memories of Referendum
Day was, for me, doing dd's proxy vote while she was at University in Germany!