Ireland and your vote.

[RuggerHug]

I am genuinely interested in all opinions here and I really hope that comes across. I don't want to start arguments or stir up hatred or insults. I've been on these boards for awhile and I know I've probably been quite ranty at times. I really want to not be here, so I'd like to ask everyone who voted, leave or remain, the following and I'd really appreciate your answers/thoughts.

Did ROI and NI play a part in your decision to vote whatever way?

Did the effect of a vote either way to NI and ROI occur at all, if so how?

Since the result, did anyone have a change of heart/become more sure of their vote based on what came out regarding ROI and NI afterwards?

Have you any thoughts on how we've been during it all/how our media portrays activities in the UK(if you're aware of what is said/shown here).

Hopefully this won't come across as trying to start a fight but, in all of this, did you care about us and the fallout or did you consider it not the UKs/anyone elses problem?

For disclosure, I'm Irish, in ROI, spent a lot of time at the border/in NI before the GFA, not as much after. Anyone I know in the UK that had a vote voted remain, I know 1 Leave voter(who lives in ROI).

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts.

[BrexitBingoGenerator]

I’ve got loads of family in Belfast so yes, for me it was a huge decider in my choice to remain.

[MysteryTripAgain]

ask them if they knew about the Irish border problem before they voted

The answer to that will most likely be;

No, we didn’t.

if they did, do they have an answer?

The most likely answer to that would be;

Not our problem if people can’t be neighbours.

[LaurieMarlow]

Not our problem if people can’t be neighbours.

A total non answer, refusing to deal with any of the specific challenges involved, but, uh, thanks

[LaurieMarlow]

And note to the Brexiteers. This really, really, really IS your problem.

[LaurieMarlow]

That's actually a big one, repeated alot. I wonder how British people in NI feel about that. For one they are constantly called Irish and for another they are seen as very disposable to England leavers.

The Unionists in NI were guaranteed rights as British citizens under the GFA and a promise that their status wouldn't change until a majority in NI wanted it to.

I'm sure they feel very betrayed by the Brexiteers glee in throwing them under the bus.

[Voila212]

I actually agree with Mystery here, they will come out with not our problem. That's how thick they are.
I wouldn't blame the Laurie, in fact it boils my blood when they go on about Ireland using the border issue to gain a United Ireland. It couldn't be further from the truth . We have all moved and accepted how things are, (with the help with the GFA) and were happy with the satus quo.

[MysteryTripAgain]

And note to the Brexiteers. This really, really, really IS your problem

Suggest you look at the results of the three votes on the withdrawal agreement. Labour, LidDems, SNP all voted against the WA.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

The terrorist contingent of Leave voters are rubbing their hands in glee.

[Voila212]

I agree with you there too Mystery, all British mps are responsible for the mess. But the point is the same ' This really, really, really IS your problem*

[PotterHead1985]

I'm a dual citizen living in Ireland with my elderly English mother. Had we the option we both would have voted remain. We didn't think the leave side put forward a decent argument as to why it was a good idea, what benefits it would bring and how they would address any problems - such as NI and the GFA - and therefore remain was the only option. We believed that most voters would be of the same opinion. We were shocked at the result.

[MysteryTripAgain]

We have all moved and accepted how things are, (with the help with the GFA) and were happy with the satus quo

Article 50 was signed by all EU members in 2009. It allows a no deal. Which in the event that either Ireland or UK left EU, status quo on the Island of Ireland would change.

[shushymcshush]

Sadly it didn't play a part in my thinking, or anyone else I know to be honest. I am appalled at how it was never mentioned anywhere during the campaign (in mainstream places where I may have come across it), how it was ignored (intentionally or otherwise).

I could weep as I genuinely fear for the impact this could have in N. Ire & the Republic, especially in border communities. The people on the island of Ireland deserve so much better than this cr*p, in fact we all do.

I am old enough to remember the coverage of the Troubles on tv and a few years ago I went to Belfast. We enjoyed our trip, but I was very moved by a few things:

1. Recognising streets from the scenes on tv 30 yrs ago
   
2. The height of the walls/barriers. The tour guide explained to us that one of the city centre buildings (can't remember which one now), was the first to be built with glass front. Contrast with neighbouring building that had a reinforced concrete barriers.
   
3. The murals on the walls and the messages they gave.
   
4. Being looked after in restaurants, visitor attractions etc who were aged about 18-20, for whom peace has brought jobs and opportunities.
   

It took an article in the Guardian by Patrick Kielty of all people to start to really open my eyes to this. I have been watching a lot of programmes about the issue to educate myself.

I feel like we are dismantling GFA and its wrong. The people of N Ire and Ireland deserve so much better. I don't know how a "border"/"not a border border" will be manned/monitored (I'm not buying the cameras BS). I don't have any faith in this government to do the right thing.

[MysteryTripAgain]

This really, really, really IS your problem

If UK leaves without a deal, EU border regulations are Ireland problem too as if they erect a border in accordance with EU regulations they are breaking GFA.

[LaurieMarlow]

Article 50 was signed by all EU members in 2009. It allows a no deal. Which in the event that either Ireland or UK left EU, status quo on the Island of Ireland would change.

Legislation allows for all kinds of possibilities, that's kind of the point.

I don't think anyone, even within the UK, thought that a situation like this would come to a no deal - that the UK would commit such an act of destruction on itself and endanger a peace treaty that it (along with others) worked so hard on.

People are reeling from the realisation that no, they might actually do that.

[LaurieMarlow]

If UK leaves without a deal, EU border regulations are Ireland problem too as if they erect a border in accordance with EU regulations they are breaking GFA.

Yes, the UK's carelessness, ineptitude, selfishness and arrogance have created a huge problem for ROI. They are raging about it. Other countries are raging on their behalf.

If you think ROI will get the blame internationally for breaking the GFA then you're totally deluded.

[Dinosauratemydaffodils]

Did ROI and NI play a part in your decision to vote whatever way?

Yes. But my adored MiL is from Fermanagh. Her df was killed in the troubles and even though he died before dh was born, his death is still having an effect on their wider family today.

Also as the daughter of a British soldier who grew up in the 1980s on military bases in Germany having her school bus searched and watching her df check under the car every morning for bombs, I'd hate my children to grow up like that.

That's ignoring the fact that my dm almost got disinherited by the Irish Catholic side of her family (her df's lot) when she brought my df home and dh's family were bit unhappy at first when he waltzed up with me.

[MysteryTripAgain]

I don't think anyone, even within the UK, thought that a situation like this would come to a no deal

No deal will be a forced situation if remain MPs vote against every Withdrawal Agreement that is put forward.

[Voila212]

Mystery stop with the legal jargon, we are talking about people's lives, their homes, their businesses. Should it have been brought to attention before the signing of article 50, of course but that's gone. The facts won't change what damage will be done, plenty of Irish tds and meps warned about the border before the brexit vote but their concerns were dismissed or classed as project fear. Yes it's Ireland's problem too but Ireland and the Irish people haven't said ' it's nothing to do with us' like some English leavers keep spouting.

[LaurieMarlow]

if remain MPs vote against every Withdrawal Agreement that is put forward.

At least that’s a logical position.

What about all the ERG types who have yet to agree to any WAs? The leavers who don’t want to leave!

[bellinisurge]

It makes me sick that No Dealers and other numpties are trying to weasel out of the fact that this is the UK's fault. All they need to do is accept NI remains in the customs union. And then they could have their precious leave at the end of this month. Given that the majority of them didn't even realise NI was an issue, doing a cat's bum face about how NI should leave the customs union WHEN IT DOESN'T WANT TO is pathetic posturing. Everything that follows is on them.

[MysteryTripAgain]

If you think ROI will get the blame internationally for breaking the GFA then you're totally deluded

To comply with EU border regulations, Ireland will have to install border controls that resemble those in Eastern Europe. If EU relaxes the regulations in Ireland they will need to do the same in Eastern Europe to avoid accusations of bias, etc.

[LaurieMarlow]

To comply with EU border regulations, Ireland will have to install border controls that resemble those in Eastern Europe. If EU relaxes the regulations in Ireland they will need to do the same in Eastern Europe to avoid accusations of bias, etc.

I don’t think you’re understanding my point.

[bellinisurge]

The UK will have to protect its own customs area to trade under WTO rules. Just how exactly are they going to do that if there is no current technology available that allows them to do it without infrastructure. Which includes stuff away from the border. Do it in the Irish Sea and it would be fine. Do it anywhere on the territory of NI and you might as well paint a big target on the location. Because you are sure as hell going to have to put security in it. Anyone fancy sending their sons and daughters to NI to be that security? Or do you expect the people of NI to do it for you?

[HerSymphonyAndSong]

Mystery doesn’t want to [appear to] understand. It’s deliberate deflection, distraction, expand the argument to include irrelevant things in order to avoid discussing the real issues at hand.

I actually do think that some leave voters feel ashamed of not having considered NI when they voted, in the same way that some remainers are relieved that they voted the way they did despite also not having considered NI. It accounts for some leave voters’ hostility and desperation to believe falsehoods about the GFA, the history of the island of Ireland, and Britain’s culpability and obligations.

[MysteryTripAgain]

The leavers who don’t want to leave!

Check the results of the three votes on the withdrawal agreement. The majority against went from 230 down to 58.

The reduction was attributable to conservative MPs acceptance of the WA. However, labour MPs who supported WA only increased from 3 to 5.

LibDems, SNP, Green all voted against the WA unanimously three times.