Ireland and your vote.

[RuggerHug]

I am genuinely interested in all opinions here and I really hope that comes across. I don't want to start arguments or stir up hatred or insults. I've been on these boards for awhile and I know I've probably been quite ranty at times. I really want to not be here, so I'd like to ask everyone who voted, leave or remain, the following and I'd really appreciate your answers/thoughts.

Did ROI and NI play a part in your decision to vote whatever way?

Did the effect of a vote either way to NI and ROI occur at all, if so how?

Since the result, did anyone have a change of heart/become more sure of their vote based on what came out regarding ROI and NI afterwards?

Have you any thoughts on how we've been during it all/how our media portrays activities in the UK(if you're aware of what is said/shown here).

Hopefully this won't come across as trying to start a fight but, in all of this, did you care about us and the fallout or did you consider it not the UKs/anyone elses problem?

For disclosure, I'm Irish, in ROI, spent a lot of time at the border/in NI before the GFA, not as much after. Anyone I know in the UK that had a vote voted remain, I know 1 Leave voter(who lives in ROI).

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts.

[MysteryTripAgain]

But when they drew up the GFA did they factor in the possibility that we might want to leave the EU?

GFA passed in 1998. At that time Article 50 had not been developed. However, GFA makes reference to North and South duties in accordance with EU policies.

Article 50 was developed over a period of years from 2000 to 2009 when signed off by all EU member states. Article 50 is deal or no deal.

GFA not mentioned at all. BIC (British Irish Council) established after GFA was passed. Their task was to take into account how any changes in EU policies may effect North or South and GFA.

The possibility of either Ireland or UK invoking Article 50 was never taken into account. Even when Cameron announced in January 2013 there would be an EU referendum if he was elected did not prompt any questions or contingency plan in the event UK voted to leave EU.

[MysteryTripAgain]

No it isn’t. She’s speaker of the house. Legislation goes through her first. She has far more power than Corbyn

What makes you think UK wants a trade deal with US? There seems to be lots of fear over US food products.

Also a UK and US trade deal is dangerous for Ireland if there is an open border. US could export direct to NI questionable food products, arms, etc. Once they cross the open border into Ireland they could end up anywhere in Europe.

[Wolfff]

I think it influenced my decision obliquely because I have an Irish husband (and a Dutch mother). I don’t think the question of the practicalities of the Irish border played a part in my decision, it was more that I considered myself European and I felt Cameron was pandering to racist and xenophobic elements in his own party by calling the referendum.

I do read the Irish Times so I am aware of the debate. Personally I find the effect on Ireland of Brexit horrifying.

I think what Irish people don’t quite grasp is that many people in Britain do not give a hoot about Ireland and Irish affairs and the Irish spend a great more time thinking about Britain than the people in Britain do about Ireland. Yes it is shocking but I think that is the truth.

Part of this is ignorance, an education system that is obsessed with WW2 and topics rather than a chronological history including the relationships between the countries of the British Isles and utter disinterest from a large sector of the population as it simply doesn’t affect them.

[LaurieMarlow]

I presume they want trade deals with someone though? Isn’t that the whole point?

So who should be top of the list?

[Voila212]

When it comes to Brexit and the issue of Ireland brexitters have the same quotes, it actually gets a bit repititous.

1. Didn't the EU make them vote again
2. Didn't we give them Billions and how ungrateful they are.
3. We are great Britain, how dare they.
4. Some derogatory comment about our prime minister
5. If the Irish can't live together what has it to do with us.

Seriously every article about Brexit and Ireland on Facebook has at least one of these comments. It doesn't matter when other posters explain how wrong they are, they carry on. A lot of leavers don't care for the truth, their comments are used to belittle Ireland.
Oh by the way those who go on about our little country and its small population, Ireland had a population of over 8 million before the famine but due to the actions of the UK government and immigration our population never recovered.

[MysteryTripAgain]

Pretending you give a shit about NI or delivering Brexit?

I would guess that for most of the 17.4 Million leave voters it would be delivery of what they voted for. Also for UK government/parliament to stand by what they promised which was to honour the result.

Same scenario as always around the World which is;

If it does not affect the masses, the masses are not interested.

[Mistigri]

It's not an 'Irish issue'. NI is in the UK. Watch your language, it matters

Mystery lives in Asia and doesn't know or care.

However, I do genuinely believe that most Brexiters want to avoid a hard border, if only because of the risk to British soldiers and policemen (the RUC has already said it won't police the border, which implies that military would be needed to protect border installations and the people who are contracted to build them).

[Voila212]

Who do the UK want a trade deal with. It wasn't only Nanci Pelosi but also by members of the Friends of Ireland caucus in Congress who said there would be no trade deal. A leading trade dealer in Australia spoke out yesterday that he can't see any good trade deals with the uk. He said that Aus are trying to agree fta with the EU. So who else are left and what will they want in return?

[Mistigri]

Seriously every article about Brexit and Ireland on Facebook has at least one of these comments.

Don't forget that a lot of those comments are "manufactured" - social media and BTL comments sections are infected by paid partisans.

I do not think that the average leaver wants a flare up of sectarian violence. Younger people probably are relatively ignorant of the troubles but anyone my age (fifties) or older will probably remember and even have been affected by mainland bombing campaigns and bomb scares.

[Voila212]

So are you saying some of the posters here are actually paid partisan because I've read ' the EU made them vote twice ' several times on this thread alone and when it was explained the poster dismissed it. So is that poster a paid bot or just down right ignorant ?

[bellinisurge]

If you don't give a shit about NI, why don't you lobby your MP to accept an arrangement where NI stays in the customs union.
Although as Mystery doesn't have an MP because they live in the Far Eat, think Germany wants to take over the world and believes Ireland doesn't care about the Holocaust, who gives a fuck what Mystery thinks.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

It’s not that we hate talking about the troubles in N.I, but the rest of the UK should not be made to stay in the EU because politicians can’t sort out the Irish issue.
Why doesnt England have an Indyref and fuck off out of the UK and the EU since they cant sort out anything.

[bellinisurge]

They did "sort out the Irish issue". It's called the GFA and not to be messed with.

[MysteryTripAgain]

I presume they want trade deals with someone though? Isn’t that the whole point?

Yes. At present EU countries can only make deals with non EU countries via Brussels.

UK has an ever growing trade deficit with EU which at present is £64 Billion. Whereas UK has a trade surplus of £44 Billion with non EU countries. So if UK can increase trade with non EU countries they can begin to reduce the overall trade deficit.

So who should be top of the list?

EU as UK already trades with EU to EU standards.

Brexit for me was never intended to result in severance of trade between EU and UK. Neither wants that to happen.

Unfortunately negotiations seem to have gone down a two phase approach. WA first followed by future relationship. Article 50 reads that they are meant to happen in parallel.

[bellinisurge]

Do you still think Germany wants to take over the world and that Ireland doesn't care about the Holocaust @MysteryTripAgain ?

[EmeraldShamrock]

I don't think anyone genuinely thought Brexit would win.
I worked for a bookmakers ATT, People were betting thousands on stay, the odd few backed the leave.
My mouth dropped when I heard the result.
Off topic I genuinely believe if the government had of monitored the FOM, cheap labour, lack of housing etc Brexit wouldn't have happen.
The Irish government should learn from this.

[EmeraldShamrock]

The Twitter comments around Bonnie Greer towards Ireland were harsh.
Did anyone create a thread of Bonnie's comments on question time?
I looked for one.

[Yaralie]

Next time you hear an angry red faced brexiter shouting "we knew exactly what we were voting for. We voted to leave", ask them if they knew about the Irish border problem before they voted, if they did, do they have an answer?

[Voila212]

They will come out with the same spiel Yaralie.
' We don't need a border'
'let the EU put up a border and pay for it
' They are only using the border to keep us in
Also they will then come out with we voted Brexit to control or borders.'
So they want to control their borders except the only one that connects with an EU country.

[MysteryTripAgain]

Do you still think Germany wants to take over the world

After two attempts that resulted in failure and US demonstration of how effective nuclear weapons were almost 80 years ago, I don’t think Germany will try again.

[FinallyHere]

I've only ever spoken at any length to one person who was a keen Brexiteers. His answer to my question 'what about Ireland' was to say 'let them reunite '.

A person of limited understanding.

[Voila212]

Our not or

[DioneTheDiabolist]

ask them if they knew about the Irish border problem before they voted, if they did, do they have an answer?
Some of them will just lie and then spout more ill informed bollocks. See dirtyrottenscoundrel's and Dissimilitude's offerings here.

[LaurieMarlow]

So they want to control their borders except the only one that connects with an EU country.

The irony is so beautiful

Or, y’know, fucking stupid.

[Voila212]

Finallyhere thank you, how could I forget that one.
'Give them back to Ireland '
That's actually a big one, repeated alot. I wonder how British people in NI feel about that. For one they are constantly called Irish and for another they are seen as very disposable to England leavers.