Ireland and your vote.

[RuggerHug]

I am genuinely interested in all opinions here and I really hope that comes across. I don't want to start arguments or stir up hatred or insults. I've been on these boards for awhile and I know I've probably been quite ranty at times. I really want to not be here, so I'd like to ask everyone who voted, leave or remain, the following and I'd really appreciate your answers/thoughts.

Did ROI and NI play a part in your decision to vote whatever way?

Did the effect of a vote either way to NI and ROI occur at all, if so how?

Since the result, did anyone have a change of heart/become more sure of their vote based on what came out regarding ROI and NI afterwards?

Have you any thoughts on how we've been during it all/how our media portrays activities in the UK(if you're aware of what is said/shown here).

Hopefully this won't come across as trying to start a fight but, in all of this, did you care about us and the fallout or did you consider it not the UKs/anyone elses problem?

For disclosure, I'm Irish, in ROI, spent a lot of time at the border/in NI before the GFA, not as much after. Anyone I know in the UK that had a vote voted remain, I know 1 Leave voter(who lives in ROI).

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts.

[bellinisurge]

If you get your Irish history from Leave.EU, I suppose it would say ignorant shit like that. And you would believe it.

[GhostofFrankGrimes]

A 90% approval rating for EU membership seems pretty emphatic to me.

[SabineSchmetterling]

absolutely. There’s no such thing as facts and all opinions are equal. A persons feeling that they were made to vote again on the same thing are just as valid as the documents that show the treaty was changed in response to Irish concerns.

[dirtyrottenscoundrel]

bellinisurge

I know you think you speak for everyone in Ireland ( north & south ) but believe it or not, not everyone in Ireland is in love with the EU

And I get my information from quality ( unbiased ) newspapers.

[Dissimilitude]

I find it weird that the sovereign policy of a nation is to be held hostage to the bizarre political constraints of its smaller neighbour.

So we can’t leave the EU, because if we do some crazy people are going to start fighting each other again?

If we leave the EU, and the troubles resume, I think people fail to remember that those most deserving of blame for that will be the people who take up arms.

[noblegiraffe]

‘Not taught in schools’ isn’t quite right - I did ‘The Irish Question’ as part of GCSE History in the 90s.

[MindyStClaire]

bellini has never presumed to speak for all of Ireland. And no, of course not everyone in a population of a few million is in love with the EU. But I had a quick Google, and this is the latest poll I found on the first page of results 91% approval rating. I think that's pretty conclusively positive.

Apologies for derailing your thread Rugger.

[MindyStClaire]

If we leave the EU, and the troubles resume, I think people fail to remember that those most deserving of blame for that will be the people who take up arms.

I live in NI, although if the Troubles resume we may leave (these are the real conversations taking place in houses in NI ATM). I would place the blame squarely at the feet of all those who broke a peace treaty.

[Dissimilitude]

Presumably you mean the raising of a customs system between north and south.

Which means you blame Ireland and the UK? Britain offered to erect no border. That constrain arises from EU inflexibility as much as British desire to leave.

[DuchessDumbarton]

I suppose it depends who you talk to as to their take on it.

Nope, you're conflating facts and opinions. there.
I have an opinion on Brexit.
The fact is, the UK voted for it.

Ireland voted against the Lisbon Treaty due to concerns about our longstanding neutrality- we negotiated changes to that Treaty.
The re-negotiated Treaty was voted on in a second referendum which passed.

Yes, due to some very bad decisions by our Central Bank, followed up by bad decisions made with inadequate information, our economy crashed.
We were bailed out by EMF, and World Bank.
Our neighbours in the UK kindly gave us a loan.
Facts.
We have turned our economy around thanks to the support of others.
Facts.
Ireland is a basket case economy like Greece and Italy- opinion, not based on fact.

[HarrietM87]

I find it weird that the sovereign policy of a nation is to be held hostage to the bizarre political constraints of its smaller neighbour.

So we can’t leave the EU, because if we do some crazy people are going to start fighting each other again?

@Dissimilitude but Northern Ireland is part of the UK- so it’s not about the UK’s “smaller neighbour” - it’s about the UK itself. That’s the whole point and unless I’ve misread it, your post epitomises the huge misapprehension that many in the U.K. (including sadly many of the stories) are under.

[HarrietM87]

Tories not stories!

And in answer to the OP, I’m Irish living in the UK and it was a massive part of my decision to vote Remain.

[DuchessDumbarton]

I find it weird that the sovereign policy of a nation is to be held hostage to the bizarre political constraints of its smaller neighbour

Not the political constraints of your neighbour, but your neighbour pointing out the impact of your actions on a piece of your nation that is on the same island as theirs.

Your neighbour (and why does size come into it? surely that's the rhetoric of a bully?) has negotiated with you that many of your citizens share nationality with that neighbouring country.

And, I find it very telling that you would consider the resumption of violence to be a "bizarre political constraint"

[DuchessDumbarton]

Cross post harriet

[RuggerHug]

dirtyrotten not quite. As pp have explained, the Lisbon treaty was rejected and changes made, then voted again.

The global banking crisis and our property bubble caused the recession here, EU helped us out.

[RuggerHug]

Dissimilitude With respect, the biggest owners and users of weapons in NI was the British Army posted there. That's a huge concern, soldiers on the streets again. 'Legitimate' killers who get a pension afterwards, not just terrorists. Especially a terrorist group with funding and assistance from the group who created the border.

[everythingcrossed]

"bizarre political constraints" = upholding an international peace treaty

[LaurieMarlow]

So we can’t leave the EU, because if we do some crazy people are going to start fighting each other again?

Those ‘crazy people’ are your own NI citizens.

The reason they’d start fighting again is because the UK just dismantled a very hard won, cleverly negotiated peace treaty that was years and years in the making.

[Mistigri]

So we can’t leave the EU, because if we do some crazy people are going to start fighting each other again?

Just last week, the chairman of the Conservative party insisted that we must implement Brexit to avoid violence in England. Are you calling Brexit supporters "crazy people"?

The ignorance of Ireland and the callous indifference to human suffering gives me the rage. 186 children died in the Troubles. Have your Brexit by all means, but leave Ireland alone. Ireland (northern and the republic) do not want a border, and this is why:

"When 14-year-old Philip Rafferty left his home in west Belfast to go to band practice, his mother, Maureen, made sure he was wearing his new winter coat. The next time she saw it was in a plastic bag at his inquest, saturated with blood."

www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/children-of-the-troubles-they-took-a-child-off-the-road-put-a-hood-over-his-head-and-killed-him-1.4037704?mode=amp

[MysteryTripAgain]

@RuggerHug

Did you get what you were looking for in reply to your question?

[LaurieMarlow]

"bizarre political constraints" = upholding an international peace treaty

Well this tells you all you need to know about Brexiteers feelings about their own international commitments.

The thing that puzzles me is, do they not understand that other nations are watching them? Nations who they apparently want to do trade deals with.

Do they not see that pissing all over their commitments in the GFA establishes them as an unreliable country to do business with?

[Mistigri]

The Brexit supporters on here hate people talking about Ireland, the reality of the Troubles, and the risk that is being taken with the lives of the people of Northern Ireland in particular and the border communities in particular.

[LaurieMarlow]

Your neighbour (and why does size come into it? surely that's the rhetoric of a bully?)

Another nasty undercurrent of brexiteers debate has been the resurgence of the historical assumption that Ireland should just roll over and get fucked when it suits British political interests.

And outrage when it becomes clear that they won’t do that so easily this time.

[MysteryTripAgain]

@lauriemarlow

Based on previous events in the World, I can’t see too many countries being that bothered.

US nuked Japan, but it did not stop them from becoming trade partners.

Germany did the unthinkable and yet they trade with many countries.

Trump seems to be a big supporter of no deal?

[JenniR29]

I voted remain but I don’t remember the Irish border being discussed all that much during the referendum campaigns. I don’t think a lot of Brexiters in England care about Ireland, they see it as collateral damage which is sad.

I’m surprised more people didn’t pick up on what Nancy Pelosi said about a post Brexit trade deal with the USA, i.e. there won’t be one if the GFA is compromised.