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Brexit

Westministenders: Boris Johnson Broke The Law

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 24/09/2019 11:05

ITS OFFICIAL
The Highest Court in the Land has ruled that Boris Johnson has broken the law.

Parliament is Sovereign.

Despite the calls for his resignation it is highly unlikely he will under the current political climate.

It must be stressed that the judgement was UNAMINOUS and went further than most expected, and took the hardest possible line again the government

The power now lies with the Speakers of the Lords and Commons to decide when Parliament reopens.

It also means that all the bills which were ended by proroguation are now back in play.

Expect a full backlash from the hard right attacking the courts are going full on 'enemies of the people'. This will be NASTY

The strength of this ruling does pretty much rule out another proroguation as the courts are liable to throw it out immediately if they try it on again.

Johnson is in New York. He needs to get on a plane very quickly.

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TheElementsSong · 24/09/2019 12:54

Amazing! After everything that has happened for the past 3 years, now apparently it's only this specific event that is outrageous, divisive, brings "us" into disrepute and will have serious consequences Grin

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 24/09/2019 12:55

'Lady' Hale looks dressed for the occasion with her spider's brooch all in black over seeing the remain coven, truly chilling day for the democracy of this country, and for the future.

This is the funniest thing I've ever read on MN. Why was I not reading the Brexit threads before?

Genevieva · 24/09/2019 12:56

@Thegrasscouldbegreener There would be no need for different wording. Just a new date. Parliament has just had a long summer holiday and it is the conference season so the House of Commons would normally be empty at this time anyway. If it were not for the prorogation, there would be other things happening, but if it was known that prorogation ,with the normal week of closed parliament, was in the offing, then not much would happen on that front either. In the short term this judgment is more important for people who wish to discredit Borish Johnson than it is for the functioning of the legislature. In the long term, it sets in stone that the length of a prorogation period must be justified by the executive (government) and, potentially, open to challenge by the legislature (parliament).

BigChocFrenzy · 24/09/2019 12:56

imo, the rebel Alliance would not wish to trigger a GE without at least an extension first

Otherwise, Parliament would be automatically dissolved for 5 weeks beforehand and hence could not stop No Deal happening on 31 October

If BJ is now forced to request an extension - and the EU grant it - then Corbyn would probably want to call a GE
However, more cautious heads in the Labour party won't want a GE if they think BJ would win a working majority - because he could then immediately pass any necessary legislation to leave with No Deal

So we might even stagger along for a few months with a Zombie Parliament that cannot choose from the available Brexit options, but doesn't want to call a GE
Very unstable situation, which leaves a political vaccuum for populists to exploit

The sensible answer would be a GNU to reach all-party agreement on what to do next
However, common sense left the building 3 years ago and has not yet returned

BercowsFlyingFlamingo · 24/09/2019 12:57

I miss having someone to buy ties for. Maybe I should start wearing them myself. My late dad wore a tie every day. I always bought him funky ones as presents. I miss being able to do that. Ds is only 4 so too little to buy him any yet.

wheresmymojo · 24/09/2019 12:58

Just popping on to say I'm having an awful lot of fun on the Tory boards this morning with the Blukip types.

I posted this on any thread about the ruling and they don't know how to come back to it Grin

"And here it is, a group of supposedly conservatives who have:

A. No regard for the British courts
B. No regard for Parliamentary sovereignty

And thus...
C. No regard for British institutions.

Conservative values are to uphold British institutions and the rule of law.

You're not conservatives. You are fake conservatives."

Response: Grin

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 24/09/2019 12:58

For those asking about what law Boris broke

His action was unlawful not illegal.

He did something that he did not have power to do. He exceeded the power of a PM to prorogue Parliament. Prime Ministers only have limited powers to shut down Parliament and there needs to be a valid reason and a proportionate timescale. He could not satisfy either of those tests. Furthermore, in shutting down Parliament in the way he did he undermined Parliamentary scrutiny and accountability - he did not have the power to do that outside of the limited “usual” prorogation powers.

No Executive has unlimited and unfettered power to do what it wants and if the Executive have forgotten where the limits to their powers are the the courts have to remind them.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/09/2019 12:58

"'Lady' Hale looks dressed for the occasion with her spider's brooch all in black over seeing the remain coven, truly chilling day for the democracy of this country, and for the future."^Grin

I thought we were ruled by a sinister cabal of shape-changing lizards

You mean it's rule by spiders ? NOOOO !

FoldyRoll · 24/09/2019 12:58

People bots who accuse remainers of being in a bubble, with the accompanying implication that they alone have some clear eyed insight into what Real People™️ think are laughable. Remainers, just like Leavers, span all classes, political viewpoints, regions and ages. Everyone lives in a bubble of some sort, with no way of finding out how many other bubbles there are nor their relative strength.

Leaver civil unrest, beyond the usual hardcore of nut jobs looking for any fight they can find, is jokes. They'd rather stop in the pub/care home whinging. But to be fair, it's hard to know that if you're in Russia, isn't it my binary chum?

LarkDescending · 24/09/2019 13:02

Where do we think Buckingham Palace is going to be on the “amount of displeasure” scale this time? I am looking forward to that Tweet.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 24/09/2019 13:03

Maybe the Government will appeal to the ECJ.
Surely there is some obscure point of EU law they can dig up...

RedToothBrush · 24/09/2019 13:03

Tim Shipman @ShippersUnbound
Regardless of the final ruling the judges have already set us on the path to an American style Supreme Court. In future appointments will become highly politicised

Iain Martin @iainmartin1
Yep. Will be intense scrutiny of political views and a new public process for appointments demanded. Perhaps this always was the logic of the creation of the Supreme Court. This speeds it up dramatically.

Lawrence Freedman @LawDavF
I think you underestimate the importance of unanimity in this case. If it had been a more split verdict then would have opened up all sorts of arguments about politicisation. This suggests a clear legal logic. Also not a ruling on Brexit just role of parliament.

Iain Martin @iainmartin1
I think you underestimate the anger many pro-Brexit voters will feel. We will - I fear - now get into a bitter argument lasting years about the role of the courts and the appointment system. Perhaps was overdue after the Supreme Court was established, but here we go.

Lawrence Freedman @LawDavF
Why? They have not ruled Brexit illegal. They have said Parliament should be there to discuss it. Is that such a bad thing to ask? Just because you don’t like the verdict doesn’t mean you have to attack the institution. Current state of US SC not argument for pol appointments.

Upandaway @upandaway
This ruling will be very impopular with the sizable share of the UK electorate that subscribe to the ideology that the ends always justify the means. But since there's no arguing with these people anyway, perhaps it's no big loss.

I think its not a good look to be dismissing 'these people' describing it as 'no big loss'. It IS a big deal, and unless there is a fundamental understanding about the importance of the rule of law and how its to all our benefit (the alternative being the idea of the courts being free and fair being something that is destroyed).

The problem here is very much summed up in how the Justice system is currently failing - through cuts - meaning there is very little legal aid where they need it, people are struggling to get legal defence and the courts aren't sitting because the government isn't funding them so even if the police do their jobs, suspects are either free to reoffend whilst waiting for their case or rot for months without trial whilst on remand - none of which is in the best interests of the victim.

The effect being 'justice' is something only for the rich and the poor can not defend themselves against either unfair prosecution or be on an even playing field for being treated equally if they have offended.

Its all these building blocks having been eroded that have substaintially weakened our institutions and ability to function effectively as a liberal democracy.

Its all connected.

Most 'ordinary people' only see their immediate world and the stuff they are up close to rather than the bigger picture and thats part of the problem.

High minded ideals of how the constitution works and how justice works don't mean a lot. Especially when in practice they aren't necessarily getting the benefit of those, because of cuts and the government acting unlawfully (cases like the DWP and the Home Office being found to have acted unlawfully for various reasons spring to mind - these are the cases that reach court - for everyone of those think of all the ones that don't).

Whilst I am extremely pleased at the ruling I am also EXTREMELY worried about the fallout for it too.

Things are THAT fragile.

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tobee · 24/09/2019 13:04

Boris Johnson turning up to meeting in New York, not saying anything. Just now live on the news.

FractalChaos · 24/09/2019 13:05

WHY is Boris not making a statement? He has been shown as up and about, depsite the time difference, so why isnt he saying anything?

Thegrasscouldbegreener · 24/09/2019 13:05

The law has not been broken, so how can any court do this?

Good question.

In short answer, the SC have just issued a verdict and instructions simply because they choose to. No law has been broken. If the Supreme Court were truly impartial, then they simply could and would not come to this verdict.

We have a very very serious problem now. Regardless of what side you are on.

We have a highly politicised Judiciary now. Our courts have lost their independence. This is very, very serious.

Our Judiciary is now compromised, not impartial and not fit for purpose.

Regardless whether you are remain or leave you should be feeling very worried about this development.

Our courts are no longer impartial......Consider the wider implications of this. Put aside your prejudice and try and imagine how this can and now will be used.

The people will rise up against this, they can see clearly no law has been broken, and it is another remain ruse. As I said before the establishment seem to be pitching themselves directly against the democratic wishes of the people, it will be the people that have the last word, when everything else fails a revolution will be the only option left.

We need a General Election urgently.

sheshootssheimplores · 24/09/2019 13:05

Interesting times!

BigChocFrenzy · 24/09/2019 13:05

Tory party conference is 29 September - 2 October, in Manchester

They'll certainly have a lot to debate
we need to watch out for any "Enemies of the People" shit and whether the govt tacitly allows it / Cummings whips it up

I wonder what reception BJ will receive - applause for an injured innocent, or boos for Bungling Boris Hmm

I wonder if he might even copy his Eton & Bullingdon chum Cameron soon and walk away whistling,
leaving someone else to clear up the mess he's made

btw, @red Do you know if any of the expelled rebels have been allowed to hold fringe meetings ?

iirc, the head of the Tory Remainers campaign has been banned from holding their meeting

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 24/09/2019 13:06

I have heard confidentially that Liz is going to call BJ in for a knighthood. Apparently the sword is very heavy, especially if you are in your 90’s and surprisingly sharp for a ceremonial item.

RedToothBrush · 24/09/2019 13:07

You would think so, but if Cummings is anywhere near as intelligent / cunning as many people credit him to be, Cummings would surely have an 'insurance policy' (aka major dirt) against Johnson's famous opportunism?

How many inappropriate busty blondes are there out there?

(this is a rhetorical question btw).

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DadDadDad · 24/09/2019 13:07

Maybe the Government will appeal to the ECJ.

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude - brilliant! with the added bonus that it might make Farage's head explode!

(References to explosive accidents befalling any body part of any Leaver are purely rhetorical and intended for humour. Violence is not the solution to our crisis).

Genevieva · 24/09/2019 13:08

@BigChocFrenzy The rebel alliance are in a quandary because the election forecasting suggests that a GE before Brexit will give Johnson a landslide victory, while a general election after Brexit might well cause the Conservatives to lose office. The Lib Dem way of dealing with this is to make the GE a referendum and aim to get the c.50% of the electorate who voted Remain and are fed up with Labour and the Conservatives (they can make big gains from both, while the Brexit party might also make big gains from both, potentially making the Lib Dems the biggest party in the House of Commons). The other Remain party MPs are worried that a resurgent Lib Dem party will steal votes from them. However, some in the Labour Party know they have too many Leave votes for the Lib Dem strategy to work for Labour and they are still trying to hold together their Brexit-voting heartlands and their Remain voting champagne socialists. The result is that the Labour Party is in chaos. But then it already was and is likely to be regardless of Brexit. The upshot of all this is that it is easier to delay a general election for as long as possible.

Hoooo · 24/09/2019 13:08

Unlawful.

He did not have the power to do it.

Simple.

I imagine there are some very unhappy tpry MPs wtm, not least the attorney general.

57Varieties · 24/09/2019 13:09

The people will rise up against this

They won’t.

RedToothBrush · 24/09/2019 13:09

Hannah Al-Othman @HannahAlOthman
So my understanding is: For Tory conference to happen MPs would have to vote in favour of a business motion allowing a conference recess.

Lib Dems and Labour have already had their conferences, so what incentive would they have to vote for it?

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wheresmymojo · 24/09/2019 13:09

'Lady' Hale looks dressed for the occasion with her spider's brooch all in black over seeing the remain coven, truly chilling day for the democracy of this country, and for the future.

I called Lady Hale's black widow look as a clue she was getting ready to go hard on the Govt on Twitter.

I imagine her discussing it with her DH this morning and having a little snigger.

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