Westminstenders: "I don't give a flying flamingo"

[RedToothBrush]

Amid scenes parliament was shut down.

In an unprecedented comment the Speaker, stated it was not an ordinary prorogation and it was blatantly an attempt to stop the executive being held to account.

And now it seems a Scottish Court agree with him:
"Lord Brodie cont: "the principal reasons for the prorogation were to prevent or impede parliament holding the executive to account and legislating with regard to Brexit, and to allow the executive to pursue a policy of a no deal Brexit without further parliamentary interference"

Thus parliament must reopen. Unless the decision is overturned in a higher court.

This is constitutionally a big deal. The Queen is highly unlikely to attend a reopening, especially in this manner, due to how political it now is.

General Election campaigning has already began with parties trying to take full advantage of the fact that there are currently no rules over spending.

Dominic Cummings actively and openly campaigning for the Conservatives whilst paid as a civil servant by the tax payer is a huge breech of the Civil service code but MPs are struggling to pin the government down on this as its being obstructive.

Cummings is keen to use data to target and personalise people based on their usage of the .gov portal for Brexit. This is OK as its in the national interest apparently. Its also incredibly sinister and concerning about how this could be used against the population.

Anyway if you thought parliament closing would result in a lull in events you were very much mistaken!!

What next?

Is it safe to go to bed yet? Or will I wake up to yet another gobsmacking thingy? Answers on a postcard please to Mr. D.Cummings, c/o no.10...

So no, we can't do better than this WA

We can lay out a much better plan for a future trade deal in the PD
BUT
we can't make it legally binding on future governments

The problem is the government(s) we elect during the time of the negotiations
Those years could be a mix of Tory, Labour or hung Parliaments

If it's just continual years of hard right Tory govt, then no WA can be written to stop that happening
Only voters can do that

Can I ask what Lexit means please? TIA.

I still think any PV must be Single Transferrable Vote, and must offer a genuine choice between different Leave options as well as Remain.

This CAN'T be some fake exercise intended to engineer a predetermined outcome.

If the PV results in a majority for a particular Leave option, that's fine.

If the new, detailed information available now the work has been done (like Yellowhammer) means some people change their minds from Leave to Remain, that's also fine. When your information changes, it's perfectly honourable to change your mind.

But it MUST be a genuine exercise, otherwise it will have no credence whatsoever.

The caveat, of course, is that the bloody disinformation and Cambridge Analytica-style fear-based psyops crap would have to be contained. And I really don't know how one achieves that.

A further referendum only has any purpose if people vote according to information, not just feelings. Otherwise it'll just descend into a mass hate-fest. (And there are certainly outside interests which would be delighted to take advantage of the opportunity to cause exactly that.)

Lexit
also Lexiter. A portmanteau of 'left-wing' and 'Brexit', referring to left-wing advocacy of EU withdrawal. (Wikipedia)

Thecat We are long past the time when we had better options
Wasted the time with everyone in the HoC - including Remainers - refusing to compromise

Now this is all we have:
Certain disaster vs at least a chance of something better

(+ NI being safeguarded in the WA; after centuries of shit from Britain, we owe them that)

The WA could be a soft Brexit under Labour

I agree Labour's chances of winning the next GE are poor - but they might win the one after in time to stop a damaging Tory FTA

What are the chances of Remain, when you go through the chain of events that must all happen to allow it ?
5% at best ?

Lexit/Lexiter = Labour/Left wing Brexit(er)/Leave(r)

ie not just because they're being forced into it because of the result of the referendum but are part of a certain wing of the of the Labour Party who actively want to leave the EU because they see it as a capitalist/corporate conspiracy that won't allow them to renationalise (even though that's a fallacy ).

Thank you Bore and pretty-
I learn so much from these threads!

So ... if the govt were legally bound to publish operation Yellowhammer by 11pm tonight - and it later (is proven) transpires that what they published was in fact not Yellowhammer but just a redacted and potentially out of date summary of it ... have they broken the law? (again?)

No because the Humble Address system is not legally binding. However to not produce the documents would be to be in contempt of parliament. Thus it is politically binding. Of course we know that this can be abused if someone chooses to for their own agenda.

BCF, Remain is currently legally possible, but politically a remote possibility because of all the hurdles that are required to do so. Understanding this, in the context of the amount of time we have to cross those barriers and how many people just in parliament never mind the wider public.

That list is pretty fair and realistic.

Even if parliament did do this, unless the public are convinced of the merits, then who is to say that in 5 years time, at the next but one GE we wouldn't have a PM who unilaterally decided to pull us out the EU?

There has to be an effort to resolve the polarisation of views. The question about Remain, that follows it about like a bad smell, is always about how it would achieve that.

The phrase I see occasionally from the leave side is the term 'continuity remainers' as if they can carry on from 22nd June 2016 as if nothing had happened. Its an observation which I think, in some cases, is a justified one.

The thing about Brexit, is it expressed a desire for change. It did not verbalise and explain what that change should be. If Brexit had one mandate that still holds true, its that one.

That doesn't necessarily mean it should be EU related.

But I've not really seen anything from the Remain camp that addresses this question about the desire for change and I think thats a real achilles heel.

I disgress from your original point, but I do think its highly relevant and should not be forgotten by would be Revokers. What else are you offering to go hand in hand with that on a domestic level.

On this, I do think Labour are ahead (although that doesn't mean that I necessarily agree with proposals for that) and the LDs are somewhat lacking. The Lib Dems are more often than not in effect, pretty conservative (with a small c) as a result.

Unless we blackmail Boris to Revoke, I can't see us remaining. There's too many links in the chain and not enough time (without a sane government and a 2 year extension).

Let's avoid No-Deal and take the Tories down in flames in the election. I think both scenarios are realistic enough to still hope for.

Is it safe to go to bed yet?
Tonight's newspaper run doesn't have anything new and gobsmacking that hasn't already come up today. So yes.

Or will I wake up to yet another gobsmacking thingy?
That I can't answer. It depends on what happens on the Breakfast shows.

I suggest you wake at 6am then you won't wake up to another gobsmacking thing. You'll be awake already when the next one hits!

No because the Humble Address system is not legally binding. However to not produce the documents would be to be in contempt of parliament. Thus it is politically binding. Of course we know that this can be abused if someone chooses to for their own agenda.

Thanks Red

... I just want Boris Johnson to go to prison for something. Is that really too much to ask?

Mother A renegotiated WA with CU / SM in the PD can only be a non-binding framework for a future CU / SM

it is legally impossible for the EU to negotiate an actual trade deal with a member

The actual negotiations for CU / SM would take several years, during which govts might change
Norway is in the SM and has 50 additional bilateral treaties with the EU
The UK is a vastly more complex economy and would need far more, plus a customs arrangement

Hence e.g. the backstop would remain, because the EU would not now risk that a future UK govt reneging before signing up to a CU / SM

To get as far as a PV requires first an extension AND then a GE which Labour wins
(despite Watson and the Ldems attacking him)

That's a hell of a gamble

I don't think politicians will do anything startling before 9am
(unless there is another violent row with Carrie and No 11 phones the cops)

Back briefly. Am positive there are large chunks missing.
Nothing about civil contingencies
Nothing about schools and food/access/teachers having to take care roles
Nothing about pallets
Nothing about body bags
Nothing about NHS being shut down appx 6 months after ND

Speculative more on the meds but the above have already been said in other documents and don't appear to have made the hit list of yellowhammer. Also telling is no terrorist risks or hotspots and no mention of hospital closures. Our local hospital has certainly accepted it will have to close once at capacity.

Thanks JeSuis, I agree .

Much talk this week from both government and opposition of "trusting the British people," in a referendum or an election. But the British people have been gaslighted and radicalised by MSM/social media for years on end. They are bored, frightened and confused. I had one of the best educations money could buy and I struggle on a daily basis to understand the complexities of Brexit. Unreasonable to expect the general population to do better unless they have relevant life experience/professional expertise. Plus our interests vary wildly depending on which part of the UK we inhabit. So no, I don't trust us. I am not anti-People's Vote, but god alone knows what would come out of it.

Just reading elsewhere that rumour has it BoZo actually vomited when he read Black Swan. Speculations about Emergency Powers, eating pets, sewage issues, slurry issues and of course we all know meds are worse than assumed already and disease outbreaks more likely.

I think Soubry/others needs to leak some of what they saw in March. I don't think top medical professionals will hold out much longer before they break silence, or someone in their chain does.

What worries me most is that if there is an outbreak or threat during the first few weeks, can we trust them to warn us to stay at home?

We are long past the time when we had better options
Wasted the time with everyone in the HoC - including Remainers - refusing to compromise

No, no, Theresa May blocked compromise. There were no genuine, open discussions about what voting Leave meant before Art 50 was triggered. And she, unilaterally, decided the red lines which have boxed the UK in to a hard Brexit or no deal. So anti-Brexiters have every right to say the WA is shit because they were not consulted.

Yes.

I agree, SwedishEdith.

I'm prepared to acknowledge the absolute futility of the situation - but I'm not prepared to say that the situation is anything other than shit.

And there were no genuine, open discussions about what voting Leave meant before Art 50 was triggered because the discontent it represented was because of Tory policies.

I'm not going to cheer Johnson if he gets a WA through at the eleventh hour.

Or hail him as a saviour.

Everything has been trampled.The WA is not in the long-term interests of the UK.

This is an almighty mess.

I may have to endure it - but I am never going to forgive it or forget how much unnecessary damage has and will be inflicted.