Westminstenders: "I don't give a flying flamingo"

[RedToothBrush]

Amid scenes parliament was shut down.

In an unprecedented comment the Speaker, stated it was not an ordinary prorogation and it was blatantly an attempt to stop the executive being held to account.

And now it seems a Scottish Court agree with him:
"Lord Brodie cont: "the principal reasons for the prorogation were to prevent or impede parliament holding the executive to account and legislating with regard to Brexit, and to allow the executive to pursue a policy of a no deal Brexit without further parliamentary interference"

Thus parliament must reopen. Unless the decision is overturned in a higher court.

This is constitutionally a big deal. The Queen is highly unlikely to attend a reopening, especially in this manner, due to how political it now is.

General Election campaigning has already began with parties trying to take full advantage of the fact that there are currently no rules over spending.

Dominic Cummings actively and openly campaigning for the Conservatives whilst paid as a civil servant by the tax payer is a huge breech of the Civil service code but MPs are struggling to pin the government down on this as its being obstructive.

Cummings is keen to use data to target and personalise people based on their usage of the .gov portal for Brexit. This is OK as its in the national interest apparently. Its also incredibly sinister and concerning about how this could be used against the population.

Anyway if you thought parliament closing would result in a lull in events you were very much mistaken!!

What next?

From the previous thread
According to SODEM, Bercow has just gone into the House of Commons.

Bercow might be stepping down on the 31st October but he is going to have some very busy few weeks ahead of him!

Does Bozo think he'll have to have to do business with the DUP. Mind you it explains how the HO looks at Emma De Souza.

Dummings reported to have said he doesn't care if NI falls into the sea. You don't say!

twitter.com/declandio/status/1171756110115721216

Interestingly, there are many comments in France about the fcat that BJ loosing in Courts plus all the votes in HoC has just proven again that populist politicians are just unable to govern.
Plus a few about the fact it will be good when the UK has finally left the EU and will 'us' in peace....

Christ, I would vote for Corbyn's Labour if I thought it would save GFA. And I swore never to vote Labour while he was leader.

Isn't one of Corbyns defining principles a backing of the GFA (Googles)

In other threads (spurred on by the BBC programme ...) there's a growing discussion about the Troubles and the British role in them.

DW and I often chat, and reminisce about what a life we've lived in terms of seeing things that as children we thought impossible.

• the fall of the Berlin wall
• end of apartheid
• peace in Ireland (and by extension Britain)
• a black US President

it is beyond heartbreaking that the GFA - one of the most outstandingly successful international settlements in an armed dispute of the past 100 years and something all British and Irish citizens should feel proud to have achieved - is so neglected in it's homeland.

Plus a few about the fact it will be good when the UK has finally left the EU and will 'us' in peace...

It would have been a lot easier to campaign for Remain if EU countries had said how much they looked forward to getting rid of us before the referendum.

I wonder what the Tory membership who voted in Boris are thinking now?

I only know one and he's doubling down in his support; "they made him do it" and "he's following the will of the people" etc.

Anyone have any insights?

I think we need to devise some catchy hashtags about BJ-Cummings' illegality and/or character

#BorisTheLier
#DontTrustBJ
#BorisMisledTheQueen
#BanishBoris
#LazyBoris
#SillyBoris
#IneptBoris

Alternatively, there were kings of England that had descriptive nicknames, like Edward Longshanks or Ethelred the Unready. We could have great fun coming up with appropriate nicknames for BJ (over and above BlowJobCum)

I’ve just seen on the news that Andrea Leadsom is saying that Yellowhammer won’t be released as the govt believe it would cause unnecessary “concern”. Surely they can’t just withhold the document??

I was reading the NI thread in AIBU - and had to stop for my blood pressure

Even schools are teaching total crap about NI

Such ignorance about one of our 4 nations is disgraceful
Most educated Americans know more about many of their 50 states and certainly know whose fault it is wrt the Native Americans or slavery

Hmm, I grew up seeing the outbreak of the Trouble on the telly, so probably absorbed more by osmosis
and I learned more from TV & papers then (mostly high quality)

Our English Language teacher had a lot of leeway in her syllabus, so we had a short debate after Bloody Sunday
and the history teacher made a brief comparison to the early 20thC bloody sunday in Russia, which was the period we were studying

I'd still expect much better from pp who were specifically taught about NI 10 -20 years ago
or even any educated people with general knowledge about the country in which they are living

Admittedly a less than neutral source, but it's what some people are thinking ...

www.republic.org.uk/what-we-do/news-and-updates/queen-acted-unlawfully-too-claim-campaigners

Today's court ruling on the prorogation of parliament also implicates the Queen. That's according to the anti-monarchy campaign Republic.

Speaking in response to the ruling the group's CEO Graham Smith earlier:

"The court ruled that not only was the advice unlawful but so was the prorogation. If the appeal next week upholds this view then the Queen prorogued parliament unlawfully."

"It's not enough to say she was following orders, that's no defence. The Queen has enough discretion within the constitution to refuse to act on the PM's instructions against parliament's wishes."

"The Queen has chosen to abdicate all responsibility, if not the throne. It leaves Britain with a pointless head of state when a crisis such as this needs an effective one."

"This crisis has shown very clearly that we need a democratic alternative to the monarchy: an effective head of state who can play a meangingful constitutional role."

(contd).

Now I'd have no problems with the Queen realising her limitations due to not being elected. But if those limitation mean she is unable to actually use the power we thought vested in the Monarch then she is as mush use as a chocolate fireguard.

I’ve just seen on the news that Andrea Leadsom is saying that Yellowhammer won’t be released as the govt believe it would cause unnecessary “concern”. Surely they can’t just withhold the document??

That should cause more concern than releasing them, you'd think ...

DG Being older, I add to my list:

An end to the VietNam war
The end of the Spanish fascist dictatorship

Also
The fall of the Greek and Portugese military dictatorships
(Even though the latter two weren't as long-lived, when they ended they'd been around about as long as I had been politically aware)

If the Supreme Court ruling next week does end up agreeing with the Court of Session, and Johnson doesn’t resign - can the Queen sack him?

Such ignorance about one of our 4 nations is disgraceful

Ultimately the price of that was - and I pray and hope is never again - innocents being blown to little (and not so little pieces).

When I did my sandwich year in London, overlooking Hyde Park (mid 80s) the office I was on was above the blast line for a street bomb. They knew this, as all the floors below lost their windows (with associated injuries). The operational heart of the section I worked in had a hotline to Scotland Yard as it was a known IRA target.

I was rather hoping it would stay as history - something the Grandkids could marvel and disbelieve like all Greybeard tales. I guess you really can't always get what you want .

That means that the Tories arent right wing but extreme right.

Did you miss the shift of narrative when Treeza left?

If the Supreme Court ruling next week does end up agreeing with the Court of Session, and Johnson doesn’t resign - can the Queen sack him?

Is there not a problem she's now "damaged goods" ?

DG Did the PM / JRM mislead HMQ about legal advice ?

Would it have occurred to her to ask if they had taken legal advice and from whom
or that they would deliberately mislead her

It may literally be a rubber stamp operation, where her consent is only allowed to be a formality, like reading the QS

• if so it certainly should be changed for important decisions

From the previous page, I think Basilpots and BCF were worrying about the comment in the High Court judgment that prorogation was a political decision and could be used for political advantage

a) this was High Court, so while the judge is going to be good, they know their judgment will be appealed where it is not clearcut and they don't want to be the person who sparks that constitutional crisis singlehandedly - better to leave that to the Supreme Court, and

b) I think the position has become much murkier about the advice actually given the Queen and the purposes of prorogation to avoid scrutiny in the Scottish appeal case than before the high court so there are justifiable grounds to reconsider if the Supreme Court says so.

The SNP are delighted obvs and running a (screw tightening) time line of events...

www.snp.org/brexit-chaos-continues-as-boris-johnsons-authority-crumbles-latest-updates/

After the Scottish courts found Boris Johnson’s shutdown of Parliament unlawful, Parliament must now be recalled immediately, so that MPs can scrutinise the Prime Minister with just 50 days until the Brexit cliff edge.

Kirsty Blackman and other SNP MPs, as well as figures from across the opposition parties, have gathered in front of Parliament to apply pressure to this shambolic Tory government.

No, imo HMQ is not damaged - except among Republicans who wouldn't want a RF under any circs anyway

.... imo, those now include Faragists and the nihilist hard right

I wonder what the (currently quiet ?) Treeza side of the Tories are thinking now their plan/tactic/desire to keep the party together is clearly failing if not failed ? And more importantly, who will get to keep the name and rosette ?

If BoJo is soon to be officially held in contempt of court does that mean he gets the jail?

How does that work?

Everyone knows Boris lied.

Has anyone properly challenged him in the press?
Yes - a Queen's speech is fine.
Do we need a Queen's speech just 2 weeks before Brexit day.
Can't it wait for 3 weeks?
Does it take 5 weeks to prepare one?
Do we need the conference season?
Who votes for Parliament to break for conference season.
Would MPs have voted to break at this crucial time?

I haven't heard Johnson get asked these by an interviewer who knows when someone is bullshitting.

Wondered why the other thread was so quiet and here you all are up to nearly 300 already! Will try and catch up.

Would it have occurred to her to ask if they had taken legal advice and from whom or that they would deliberately mislead her

Reading between the lines (as the UK constitution requires) I think if she had even asked, it would have sparked an outrage. After all, she has no standing against elected officials. Something centuries of precedent have established.

An elected head of state - be it President, or whatever title they would have - could have asked. Moreover they would have standing to reject the request, depending on the powers they derive from the constitution.

Today, we're seeing the third wheel of the British system - a system much of the western world has used as a model for "how to run a country" (or in the case of the US, how to run a continent ) kicking in. The judiciary. Not that many people will realise that because we teach fuck all about our own country in our own schools. I only know what I do (and at times that feels like less that the average punter) because I like reading, and I like "knowing stuff".