The Brexit Arms

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Hold the line Brexiters!!

Nearly there...

Only 53 days to go!

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Jesus, of course it's not about me. I don't care how we protect GFA. It can be something entirely different to the border in the sea suggestion. I don't fucking care.
We aren't out yet because of GFA. That is the ONLY reason.
You want us to career over a fucking cliff to No Deal because you want people to suffer and you can't be bothered thinking of an alternative.

I still don’t agree with yours or any Leavers rationale for wanting to leave but I do respect the fact we can’t change your opinion any more than you can change mine and wishful thinking isn’t going to resolve this mess.

If only our esteemed representatives in Parliament could be this pragmatic & democratic...

Continuing to fight the leave/remain battle is what has caused the paralysis.

Once parliament finally accepts we are leaving, the route ahead becomes easy - EEA/EFTA is the obvious compromise.
Likely with a 2 yr (no extension allowed) transition period where we remain in a CU to give time to agree a comprehensive FTA.

Alas, our current Parliament is too narcissistic & ideologically entrenched to do the right thing.
(I include the ERG as well as the anti-brexit MPs in my disdain).

there is nothing in the Belfast Agreement to require EU Membership (or regulatory alignment or customs union membership for that matter)

GFA makes reference to EU policies and programs, but EU is not a signatory to the GFA.

The BIC (British Irish Council) was established after GFA finalised. One of their tasks was to monitor how EU policies may affect either North or South.

Article 50 was developed between 2000 and 2009 by the EU to describe a procedure to be followed if any member chose to leave the EU. No reference is made in Article 50 to the GFA.

BIC failed to anticipate the effects on GFA if either Ireland or the UK chose to leave the EU.

You want us to career over a fucking cliff to No Deal because you want people to suffer and you can't be bothered thinking of an alternative.

Stop saying this - it’s pathetic and childish

Whether ‘I can be bothered’ to think of an alternative isn’t the issue

Do you honestly think it’s likely a random on the internet can sort this out?

The fact is there isn’t a viable solution that makes this all go away so it’s down to what is the most sustainable and anything involving a document called the WA is going to fall apart

Once parliament finally accepts we are leaving, the route ahead becomes easy - EEA/EFTA is the obvious compromise
Likely with a 2 yr (no extension allowed) transition period where we remain in a CU to give time to agree a comprehensive FTA

It is the brexitiers that stopped this, not the remainer MPs

As a remainer, i thought EFTA etc was the way forward.

Every time I mention a possible solution in the hope of sparking others ideas to protect GFA, you jump on it with snide dismissive comments . Which is a bit fucking childish. Anyone would think you want to close down any discussion of GFA. Much like Faridge who knew it was the Achilles Heel in the Leave argument.

Thanks Mystery. Sounds like no ECJ locus in that case. As I understand it there will be a separate Supreme Court Case as this is a different matter from the prorogation issue.

Every time I mention a possible solution in the hope of sparking others ideas to protect GFA, you jump on it with snide dismissive comments

Yes, because it’s always the same solution which plenty of people have explained won’t work

I don’t understand why you keep harping on about it as being the answer no one else can see

Just like you thought asking mummmy the exact same question as yesterday would yield a different result.

What is it they say about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result........

No, you have explained that in your view it won't work. Not the same as plenty of people.
GFA is the only reason we aren't out. I e said more times than you appear to have noticed, I don't care how it's done or what the solution is, as long as it protects GFA. I'm sure there are better ideas than the one I regular mention. There is nothing offered as a solution apart from No Deal or Revoke .
I could live with Revoke but would never support no Deal. You aren't as squeamish and embrace it. Even after Yellowhammer.

I could live with Revoke

I’m sure you and every Remainer could - that’s hardly a surprise is it?

The problem here continues to be Remainers are only looking at the options that suit them and still completely failing to acknowledge it doesn’t suit Leavers - and they won.

It is the brexitiers that stopped this, not the remainer MPs

Nope.

It was as much the remain MPs.

They all had the opportunity to pursue this course in the indicative votes but poured cold water all over it.
Preferring to play party politics & Brexit politics instead of acting in good faith.

They are all culpable

True colours shining through there.
How is compromise making me a Remainer after all this time?

They are all culpable

Remain MPs are to blame for not getting together to vote on some achievable remain objectives, eg the Cherry bill which would have neutralised the no deal risk.

OTOH the only people to blame for the U.K. not having brexited already are the Brexity MPs who voted against the WA.

Alas, our current Parliament is too narcissistic & ideologically entrenched to do the right thing

Narcissism gets thrown around an awful lot these days mostly by people that know very little about what it actually is. It’s not vanity btw.

At its core is entitlement. I am/we are better than you and I deserve what I want simply because I am above you. See “don’t they know who we are?/we won the war we must be awesome/they need us blah blah blah”

It also centres around empathy impairment. See “I’m alright Jack/mummy’s depressing point d from yesterday/we know the poor will suffer most through this but just don’t give a fuck”

And also gaslighting and distorting of the truth plays a big part. See “easiest deal in history/no downsides only considerable upsides...to....oh no actually we all wanted no deal to start with and people losing their lives is a price worth paying.”

So given that these are some of the defining traits it is incredibly obvious where the true narcissism lies. You’d understand this if you knew what you were talking about.

Given that our mps jobs are to act in the best interests of its constituents, has it occurred to you that perhaps Brexit is simply not compatible with what they are there to do in the first place and that is the reason we have this deadlock?

Would a doctor advise you to do something that was actually bad for you? They’re not allowed to do that even if you really really want them to.

And no, the ones culpable of this bullshit are the ones who’s idea it was in the first place, and the numpties that support it.

Own your shit- it’s no one else’s

They all had the opportunity to vote in good faith for any and all options palatable to them, regardless of party or Brexit stance.

It didn't involve 'forming alliances' or any other such political chicanery - it was just a simple & honest indication of an acceptable way forward.

Leave MPs and Remain MPs alike thumbed their noses at the most pragmatic & achievable option because it wasn't the EXACT thing that they personally wanted.

The indicative votes were a beautiful example of how narcissistic & intransigent our current crop of MPs are - utterly unwilling to compromise or act in good faith.

I think that was possibly the moment when I truly began to be repulsed by them all tbh.

Narcissism gets thrown around an awful lot these days mostly by people that know very little about what it actually is. It’s not vanity btw.

I know exactly what narcissism is.

It absolutely applies to several of our MPs, across the board.

Own your shit- it’s no one else’s

😂😂
Get tae.

I voted in a referendum.

I expect the wining vote to be enacted.

I expect the losing side to accept the outcome & act in good faith.

Own that? Yes - I absolutely do.

I do accept the vote but I won't accept No Deal. Get tae on that.

You clearly don’t know at all. Are you suggesting those such as Ken Clarke, Starmer and other grown ups are acting the same as BJ? Don’t be absurd. So stop chucking around accusations of narcissism about if you haven’t got the first clue of what defines it.

Dusty, different MPs voted differently for their prefered option, true, but if the likes of the DUP and ERG MPs had supported an EFTA deal it would have gone through.

T.May made it very clear in 2016 and 2017 that the UK was leaving the EU inc SM, CU and ECJ, completely ruling out EFTA/EEA.

Motion D: ‘common market 2.0’ – defeated
Defeated by 282 to 261, a majority of 21

In the subsequent 2nd round vote it was again defeated, this time by 283 to 189, no ERG or DUP MPs supported it.

OTOH the only people to blame for the U.K. not having brexited already are the Brexity MPs who voted against the WA

Check out which MPs voted against the WA. Labour MPs were almost 100% against the WA. Even at the third vote, only 4 labour MPs supported the WA.

Labour thought they could force a general election by voting against the conservatives, regardless of what WA was presented, in hope the voters would lose confidence in the conservatives.

Nigel Farage cleaning up in the EU elections made labour realise that public opinion was still to leave. Hence they don’t want a general election.

I do accept the vote but I won't accept No Deal. Get tae on that.

Gladly.
I have never once suggested you should accept no-deal though so I'm rather confused as to your point tbh.

Quick lunch hour post - have been following posts on here today but work deadlines have prevented me from posting but agree with so many and a lunchtime for Bear

Was just wondering, if the original WA was bought back (with or without tweaks) where would labour MPs stand on it now? Would they be willing to vote it through?

You clearly don’t know at all. Are you suggesting those such as Ken Clarke, Starmer and other grown ups are acting the same as BJ? Don’t be absurd. So stop chucking around accusations of narcissism about if you haven’t got the first clue of what defines it.

😂 I know precisely what narcissism is & what defines it, so you can stop your worrying about what I do or don't understand.