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Brexit

Westminstenders: The Rule of Law

991 replies

RedToothBrush · 08/09/2019 14:16

We enter week 2 of what might be considered 'the end game'.

The Conservative Party has made it clear that liberals are not welcome in their ranks. It has become the Brexit Party.

Farage is talking of a pact, though Javid has said no. What would Javid know though, he's only in the Cabinet.

Amber Rudd has resigned. She will run as an independent in an unnamed constituency at the next election. The assumption must therefore be she has been talking to a few people this week about this, though whether that means she is a 'One Nation Tory' independent candidate or simply an independent isn't clear.

Some think that her departure will deal Johnson yet another blow at the polls. Others think as the cabinet members with the worst satisfaction rating amongst tory party members this will be viewed positively by leavers and give Johnson a bounce in the polls.

It been reported that Cummings has overruled Johnson on at least key decisions this week which raises the question of who is in charge and running the show.

Cummings has promised to make us all melt in the coming weeks as he takes a sledge hammer to constitutional convention. He's advised no 10 staff to be 'cool like Fonzies'. A reference to pulp fiction and to happy days. As some have commented if you think about Cummings as some one who has watched too much Tarantino it does make him make a lot more sense.

There are suggestions that Johnson will break the rule of law in refusing to ask for an extension and the No10 have a trick up their sleeve over loopholes. The most obvious thing here being to offer the EU a deal they can't possibly refuse agree too to smear them and to then make it impossible for the EU to agree to an extension which noises out of France seem to suggest anyway.

Tomorrow is going to be interesting...

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cherin · 08/09/2019 19:34

Of a 15yo Honda Jazz that is routinely used to drop bags of compost and manure to the allotment! I would not touch MY car if it wasn’t that balancing horseshit on a bycicle basket is far too acrobatic for me! These guys apparently did the entire road in a night....

BigChocFrenzy · 08/09/2019 19:35

Would Cummings give a damn and what practical effect would these resignations after 20 October have ?

Tom Newton Dunn@tnewtondunn

In other words, if PM’s refusal to implement the Benn Act crosses into the illegal, Robert Buckland will resign too.

I’m told Attorney General Geoffrey Cox will also join him.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/09/2019 19:37

"Senior Labour MPs now believe Jeremy Corbyn is close to accepting the insertion of a Commons grandee as interim prime minister.
Article mentions Ken Clarke as interim PM earlier on."

WOW

BigChocFrenzy · 08/09/2019 19:39

If it was Gove, it was brilliantly sneaky and I'm grateful

However, with this disfunctional govt and the HoC in turmoil, cockup is very possible

ContinuityError · 08/09/2019 19:40

cherin another Brexit bonus, as the fuck up continues so the price of precious metals goes up, making it worthwhile nicking catalytic converters for the platinum.

RedToothBrush · 08/09/2019 19:40

"Cummings will have been vetted"

Who by?

The PM?
The PM? Well he likes him. And that's that. The PM is a self serving narcissist

The Secret Services?
Well they can't easily intervene without have a firm legal basis to (as in charging him with a crime). They are supposed to be politically neutral

The press?
Its their job to scrutinise but since they've failed since 2016 to have any meaningful effect I'm not sure there was ever any hope there.

By Parliament
Cummings has been found in contempt of Parliament already. And the most they've done is say they are really really angry.

The police?
See above re criminal charges.

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TheABC · 08/09/2019 19:43

So, the chances of a GNU are increasing?

It's worth remembering that Cummings has a short shelf life and an op scheduled for November. Johnson can quite gracefully retire him when he outlives his usefulness. In the meantime, he makes a convenient target for the baying mob, thanks to his strongarm tactics.

IrenetheQuaint · 08/09/2019 19:44

I daresay Cummings will have been vetted to check whether he has a criminal record or dodgy finances, but I don't think the vetting would have screened for delusional narcissism or authoritarian fantasies.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/09/2019 19:44

"He should have left it to others to led the campaign and remained neutral."

He should have looked at Harold Wilson, who did just that in the 1975 Common Market referendum
He let his MPs campaign for either side
So it never became a party issue, or about Labour policies,
Just about the CM decision

However, Wilson was a wiley and highly capable politician who understood ordinary voters
Cameron is an arrogant, irresponsible, pampered fool

Sostenueto · 08/09/2019 19:45

Corbyn will not give way for someone e else to lead temporarily. Why should he he IS the LEADER of the opposition and respect should be given even if you do not like him, agree with him or whatever. In my mind he is the only one acting like a grown up. He's working with other parties including ex tories. He's trying to bring people together, he's trying to compromise and no matter what you think about him politically or personally that's more than the last 3 Tory PMs have ever done.

RedToothBrush · 08/09/2019 19:46

Sam Coates Sky@samcoatessky
Chatter tonight over whether Boris Johnson and Dominic Cummings cd declare a national emergency by using part 2 (Emergency Powers) of the Civil Contingencies Act 2004 seek to scrap the European Union (Withdrawal) (No6) Act 2019 and thereby avoid having to apply for extension? 🚨

The worry was that can the PM use the powers for 30 days through an order in council and only needs Parliamentary approval to extend them beyond the first 30 days

Spoken to one QC who rejects this. They say that while technically feasible, this would be struck down by courts pretty quickly because they think the courts would judge there is no “emergency”, just a political controversy.

Attorney General Geoffrey Cox wd also be in a pickle having to sign it off when there isn’t a an emergency

More widely such moves might be seen as another trashing of the rule of law;

It wd be accused of being an abuse of civil contingency laws designed for flood/terror attack

To be clear, this is chatter amongst MPs and peers worried No10 might try this - I’ve had no suggestion from No10 they would and haven’t asked them.

Just running thru arguments in case suddenly relevant

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BigChocFrenzy · 08/09/2019 19:46

If vetting included screening for dodgy finances, then most of this Cabinet wouldn't be there

  • they get vetted too
BigChocFrenzy · 08/09/2019 19:47

Same sort of "chatter" we're having !

borntobequiet · 08/09/2019 19:47

Thanks Hester for the account of what happened in Whitehall after I left...I must say that however different the atmosphere was from the usual, at no time did I feel threatened, the police kept the protestors well away from the rally. I knew as soon as I got there that it was different, counted 15 (IIRC) police vans between Horse Guards and Parl
Sq plus two Territorial Support Group. The racket at both ends of Whitehall was considerable, but I only realised how violent it got when I looked at pictures today.

borntobequiet · 08/09/2019 19:49

Same sort of chatter we were having, what, six, nine months ago?

cherin · 08/09/2019 19:49

if I was DC, I would ask security services to check the background of the anestesiologist booked for his operation....

Sostenueto · 08/09/2019 19:49

Maybe it could be joint leadership with Kenneth Clarke that would be OK and acceptable to most I think.

Camomila · 08/09/2019 19:49

Just where has our political talent gone? Do they not know how to teach politics in unis anymore.?

I did politics and international relations 10 years ago, a few people have gone into party politics but lots more have gone to NGOs or to be EU civil servants. (my source is my facebook feed, possibly biased as I kept in touch with more girls than boys)

RedToothBrush · 08/09/2019 19:50

Steve Peers @stevepeers
This isn't how the Act works. Parliament has to approve the powers lasting longer than seven days. It can also amend them.

Westminstenders: The Rule of Law
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BigChocFrenzy · 08/09/2019 19:52

Rudd with Andrew Marr:

Faisal Islam@faisalislam

AM: if it’s not the Cabinet running the country who is?

Rudd: “if I knew that I’d perhaps have further conversations with the PM or them”
........

Legal advice on prorogation not circulated to cabinet:

Rudd - “After persistently asking for legal advice on prorogation”
I was told I would get it,

“still didn’t have it when I resigned”
* “o*r how prorogation folded into the NI Bill”

MockersthefeMANist · 08/09/2019 19:53

Cummings appointment cannot be blocked, but his file will be with Dame Judi and if necessary he will be shot.

LunarSea · 08/09/2019 19:53

Heard this mooted today...

So convention is that an outgoing prime minister would formally hand in his resignation to the Queen and at that point also recommend a successor (e.g. when BJ took over from May). So with all this talk of BJ saying he was only bound "in theory" by the new legislation....could he be planning to go right up to late in the day of deadline for applying for an extension, and then resign, but not nominate a successor?

Would that mean that as he wasn't PM at the time it expired he hadn't defied it, but that as nobody else was either, even in a caretaker role, and the act specifically obligates "the Prime Minister" it wouldn't be enforceable. And in the process would throw in a constitutional crisis of dragging the Queen into things, or diverting Parliament to deal with it to further confuse matters in the days running up to Oct 31st?

Sostenueto · 08/09/2019 19:54

Says it all BCF

flouncyfanny · 08/09/2019 19:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bellinisurge · 08/09/2019 19:57

My experience of vetting is that they just want to know. It's more about finding stuff out, knowing your weak points. Hiding stuff is what gets you into bother. I've known someone who was a former Communist Party member and had some anxiety problems who got pretty high vetting. At face value, they would be the sort of person you would expect not to pass vetting.i know they did pass because of the work they did.