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Brexit

Westminstenders: It's a trap!

956 replies

RedToothBrush · 02/09/2019 02:48

The more I think about it, the more I believe that the war gaming that Cummings has undertaken involved deliberately provoking the split in the Conservatives, uniting the Opposition and triggering a GE in October - before B-Day.

If you are wise then I think Peregina (and BCF) have it spot on.

The optics are all for creating a positive circumstance for Johnson and a GE. Everything is about a GE. There is nothing about either no deal or a deal coming from government presently. Its always stank of being a trap but it not being quite clear what they were up to.

I think it's starting to become clearer.

Timing is everything and perception is essential and that's always been obvious. Johnson has to be seen as tough and hard line.

May's problems all stemmed from the party civil war and lack of majority. Realistically to survive Johnson has to solve this somehow. A GE gives him the opportunity to get rid of troublemakers and purify the party but he can only do so with Brexit Party supporters. Or a coalition with the Brexit Party as a last resort.

His strategy all along has been about demonising and laying the blame. And it's quite clear there is deliberate incitement going on.

Johnson HAS to be challenged for it to work though. Either by Labour going for a GE or by a VoNC sooner rather than later so a GE can fall mid Oct.

If this doesn't happen Johnson runs into problems and has to seriously consider abusing to powers of the executive to do anything. I suspect he'd try this and we'd have a constitutional crisis but this is plan B rather than plan A.

Johnson wants to be in control of the timetable without being seen to do it himself.

That points to an earlier election he has denied he wants. And rumours are now circling for 14th October election that Cummings wants to call next week - the minor detail here being the mechanics a of the FTPA. Johnson can't just call a GE without repealing the act (needs a majority to do so which he doesn't have), complying with the act (2/3rds of the House vote for it which requires Labour support) or a VoNC and he then calls a GE.

A 1st Nov GE requires him to drive us over the cliff, which is currently technically unlawful and provokes no deal the government isn't prepared for. Its extremely high risk as a strategy. It might well still be in play, but its a last resort I suspect.

A VoNC and the temptation to form an alternative government is high risk strategy as despite saying Johnson would refuse to resign, he could well just be saying this to provoke the strategy.

Remember: Propaganda is always about playing to emotional behaviour to illicit the 'right' behaviour.

There is this mentally amongst some remain quarters that only leavers are 'stupid enough' to fall for this. And there is this idea that everything that's going on now is to whip up leave feeling.

Is that true? Who is taking to the streets?

I do suspect that enough hard-line Remainers will be so angry that they act recklessly with emotions rather than rational and potentially fall for it. That's the trick. Get people emotional and you can control their behaviour. That's what Cummings did for the referendum. Except he manipulated Leave voters. He's trying to do the reverse with Remain voters now. So the question is to what ends and it does seem to come back to what Peregina says above. And whether Remainers can see it and respond to it, or become so caught up with the outrage.

Of course if the public are wound up enough and their representatives on the remain side don't play ball, then they become disillusioned and this also has an effect on voter moral (less likely to turnout). So it could be win win strategy anyway, unless this danger isn't spotted and the opposition fail to call it out and defuse it. All their messages so far are not doing so. Win Win to Cummings.

I think there are definitely two plans in action here. A preferred one and a less preferred one. Strikingly for all this game theory talk, it does look like it's about Johnson and Cummings retaining control of the narrative and the timings for a GE. Brexit itself is something of an irrelevance to this. It's not what they are trying to achieve though. Johnsons priority is to stay in power, not manage Brexit responsibly though and that's the key to understanding it all, whereas Dealers and Remainers priority is simply about preventing no deal. Johnson ultimately doesn't care about this, if he can stay PM.

OP posts:
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woman19 · 02/09/2019 18:29

@NickBoles
What was the point of that?

OublietteBravo · 02/09/2019 18:29

It is understood that the Prime Minister Boris Johnson would call a ‘rapid general election’

But he just said he didn't want an election

Yep. So he obviously desperately wants an election. He’s just lying. As usual.

Oh, and he can’t simply call a snap GE, because the FTPA doesn’t allow him to do so.

Cheesetoastiesagain · 02/09/2019 18:29

Great work by the protestors there Grin. Were they chanting "Johnson out"?

averylongtimeago · 02/09/2019 18:29

Water I think he might have been fibbing....

Outsomnia · 02/09/2019 18:29

How can an election be called under FTPA if he needs 75% support for one.

Round the houses again.

ContinuityError · 02/09/2019 18:29

From that No10Staffer Twitter account:

BJ is fuming, #StopTheCoup put him of his stride. He feels the speech was a disaster & has said he couldn’t call a GE at that moment.

Would love to think that Twitter account is for real.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/09/2019 18:30

"It is understood that the Prime Minister Boris Johnson would call a ‘rapid general election if ...."

Well, not from listening to BJ's waffle

and he can't call a GE without Corbyn's agreement

  • even if Corbyn agrees, would enough Labour MPs would vote for it if they think it means 5 years of hard right Toryism ?
CrunchyCarrot · 02/09/2019 18:30

He doesn't 'want' an election but that doesn't mean he won't call one... then he can blame everyone else if he 'has to'. Hmm

BigChocFrenzy · 02/09/2019 18:31

Well the JRM investment fund accounts on that No 10 twitter feed looked genuine

CrunchyCarrot · 02/09/2019 18:31

Larry the Cat, Esq.
@Number10cat
That really wasn’t worth getting the podium out for... #PMstatement

HeadsDownThumbsUpEveryone · 02/09/2019 18:32

I'd love to know what these supposed new alternatives were that had been put on the table. Didn't the EU categorically state they had not had any new alternatives presented to them?

prettybird · 02/09/2019 18:32

Since when did what BlowJob said mean that it wasn't actually a lie was the truth and he wouldn't backtrack in an instant if he could benefit from a different "truth"? Hmm

It's that old joke (or it would be if he wasn't PM Sad): How do you know he is lying? His lips are moving

BigChocFrenzy · 02/09/2019 18:32

yep

Nick Boles MP✔@NickBoles

What was the point of that?

CrunchyCarrot · 02/09/2019 18:33

Dilyn the Dog??

Has a twitter account... twitter.com/No10Doggo

woman19 · 02/09/2019 18:33

His lips were moving but all I could hear was "Stop the Coup" Grin

WaterSheep · 02/09/2019 18:33

I think he might have been fibbing....

No surprises there, but i'm just surprised about it being announced so soon after him denying it. It wasn't even 20 minutes before the cat was out of the bag.

woman19 · 02/09/2019 18:35

"Under no circumstances" would he seek and extension: is this the 'we choose which laws we follow' bit?

BigChocFrenzy · 02/09/2019 18:35

None of the ludicrous backstop alternatives were worth more than an eyeroll
and that EU reaction was reported in the Irish and German press

Cheesetoastiesagain · 02/09/2019 18:36

Ah so "Stop the Coup" was the chant? Was listening on tinny laptop speakers whilst cooking so couldn't hear clearly. He looked disquieted though Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 02/09/2019 18:38

Iain Martin@iainmartin1 (The Times)

No Conservative leader can agree to an extension because it = the end of the Conservative party.

Can say that's too narrow a concern.
But there you are.

An extension is a non-starter.

It is existential for the Tories.

woman19 · 02/09/2019 18:39

@IanDunt
Quite striking actually. Makes it seem like he's Chemical Ali, pretending everything fine while it falls apart around him.

Sorry if this has been discussed already, I'm in and out today, but what are people's thoughts on the 'rebel' bill tomorrow? Have you seen it BigChoc?

yolofish · 02/09/2019 18:41

well, what can you say to that 'statement'? Lies throughout, wiffle waffle, nervous glances at the 'stop the coup' demonstrators (the best bit), twitching, really he should have bought the bloody dog out!

I really have no clear idea about what happens next, except BJ is running the blame game as hard as he can.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/09/2019 18:42

Carole Cadwalladr@carolecadwalla

He's going to call election. < if JC falls into the trap >

Those who broke the law before in charge again.
Police missing.

Johnson/Farage deal inevitable.

People vs Parliament bollocks incoming...
& electoral laws "not fit for purpose".

Money untraceable.
Facebook unaccountable.
All foretold. All in plain sight

So many have knocked, minimised & ignored.

Perhaps cos they haven't understood it?
It wasn't a criminal conspiracy; it was several.

And it's not a one-off, it's systemic.

Our laws don't work.
The tech is out of control.

And there's been no justice.
Only cover-ups, denials, delays

Peregrina · 02/09/2019 18:43

What is the dog's name?

How does Larry the cat view it?

DarlingNikita · 02/09/2019 18:44

DId he really plan that particular speech - more like he got cold feet and made up some waffle at the last moment

I think this is absolutely right.