Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Can someone explain the Irish backstop to me in very simple words?

493 replies

Apolloanddaphne · 23/08/2019 16:34

I am an intelligent woman with multiple degrees but i have to confess i have no idea what the back stop is. I am too scared to ask my DH or my friends lest they think i am an imbecile (lighthearted). I have tried googling it to read articles about it but i just don't get it.

One of my friends is Irish and has a piece in a newspaper today related this today. If it comes up in conversation next time i see him i would at least like to be able to say something semi intelligent about it!

Help me please. Use easy words. Thanks.

OP posts:
Apileofballyhoo · 23/08/2019 17:41

Essentially there is no need for a border between any countries in the EU because the EU countries have a Single Market (all goods are the same standard) and Customs Union (import and export duties are all the same).

Trade deals with other countries are agreed by the EU and apply to all the countries in the EU. Trade deals mean you won't apply big tariffs on their stuff and they won't apply big tariffs on yours. So the EU has a free trade deal with Japan so there are no tariffs on Japanese goods coming in and none on EU goods going there. Once any goods come in to any part of the EU it's assumed all tariffs, taxes, customs duties are paid at point of entry so those goods are free to travel around the EU through all the different counties.

So at the moment there's no need for a border between the UK and Ireland so there isn't one. No checkpoints, no border guards, no customs officers. People live on one side and work on the other or sleep on one side and cook on the other. People can completely ignore that there's a border because it doesn't really exist except as a line on maps.

Countries not in the EU are not in the Single Market (the standards of goods, medicines and food etc.) and Customs Union (the collective imports/exports one). Some countries are in one but not the other. They have physical borders with the EU. Norway and Switzerland.

Physical borders are unacceptable in Ireland for many reasons. So the solution proposed was for the UK to remain in the Single Market and Customs Union so that there would be no need for a border to check for crappy sub standard goods or collect customs duties or check for smuggling. But the catch is that if you are a member of the Single Market (free movement of goods) you must also except free movement of people and the UK said they don't want EU people to be able to live and work in the UK. The problem with the Customs Union is that you can't make your own deals with outside countries, you have to stick to the deals the EU makes. Also you have to pay the EU for access to their Single Market and Customs Union and the UK doesn't want to pay the EU for stuff. Especially when as a non member the UK won't get a say in any of the rules and regulations and deals.

So the UK doesn't want to be in the CU or the SM but it doesn't want a border with Ireland either (Ireland doesn't want one either). So the EU said ok, because Northern Ireland is very small and very special for historic reasons we'll allow Northern Ireland to stay in the CU and the SM without paying the money and if you can keep any sub standard goods out of NI and collect any customs duties for goods between mainland UK and NI we'll all be cool. But the Democratic Unionist Party of NI who are propping up the minority Tory government said they don't want there to be any kind of border checks between NI and mainland UK because it's all one country and it wouldn't be right to be treating their part of the UK as different from the rest of the UK. So the EU said ok, you can all stay in the Customs Union without paying until we figure something else out about trading and standards and what not. But while the DUP might be satisfied with this if the whole of the UK was, there are many people who don't want to be in the CU because then the UK can't make its own trade deals. So the DUP are not happy because they fear a future where they are different.

I'm just getting to the backstop so bear with me. As part of the agreement (known as the Withdrawal Agreement) the EU want the UK to agree to Northern Ireland always being special no matter what happens in the future, there won't be a physical border. So in the event the UK decides it wants no alignment with the EU on the standards of food and goods, Northern Ireland will still follow EU standards, and remain in the CU and checks will be done at UK ports. This is only in the event that they are needed. This is the backstop. The DUP don't like this.

Several leading Brexiteers are saying it's perfectly possible to perform all checks and collect all duties somewhere far away from the actual border. So for example, if Thomas James from NI decides to sell chicken to James Thomas from Ireland, he can fill out all the forms saying how much chicken it is and pay his duties and sign the line saying it's chicken raised in NI to EU standards and not cheaper chlorinated chicken imported from elsewhere. And we'll all be fine with that because people never cheat the system and why so many countries with different taxes and regulations don't bother with physical border checks because there's no need. (As it happens there are no countries with no borders anywhere in the world.) These kind of non arrangements are usually called alternative arrangements by Brexiteers. They say there's no need for a backstop because of alternative arrangements and technology which allow border checks to be away from the border.

Added to all of that most Brexiteers don't want to be in the CU at all or have any kind of alignment on food and safety standards, so the backstop would most likely be applied. The DUP are not at all happy about this and the same applies to many other people who feel NI should be treated the exact same way as the rest of the United Kingdom, despite about half of the population of NI seeing themselves as Irish exclusively, and you know 'The Troubles'.

I'm not sure if that's any clearer.

chomalungma · 23/08/2019 17:45

Does anyone remember this being mentioned during the referendum at all?

onalongsabbatical · 23/08/2019 17:45

If all the answers and solutions to brexit were as easy as some are implying, why have hundreds of lawyers, advisors, civil servants etc been working on it for 2.5 years and we still dont know a) what is going to happen b) when its going to happen (we've got 31st october as a date but there have been at least 2 previous fake leave dates) and c) what the full implications are..... because the problem, the real problem, is that the ERG and the hard-line Brexiteers DO NOT BELIEVE THERE IS A PROBLEM - so all of these people are trying to solve it and they refuse ANY solutions and keep saying that there's NO PROBLEM TO SOLVE. The problem is that Brexit itself is based on delusionary thinking. And the deluded ones are holding power over the rest of us. This is what it's every citizen's duty to get their head round.

Apolloanddaphne · 23/08/2019 17:47

Thank you to everyone contributing. It is very helpful. I know i seem very late to the party. I seem to do this. I suddenly get annoyed by my lack of knowledge and need to educate myself. Sorry if some seem shocked by my ignorance to date!

OP posts:
milliefiori · 23/08/2019 17:50

@MindyStClaire - Thank you for that brilliant, clear explanation. I now feel less stupid too. (You're not alone OP.)

Labassecour · 23/08/2019 17:55

Sorry, OP, I was snippy and you've been very graceful about it. It just came on top of encountering some unpleasant anti-Irish prejudice where I live (rural England) recently, where one of the nastier side-effects of Brexit seems to be that it's acceptable to characterise Ireland as some kind of wilful thorn in the UK's side, as though it's WWI again and I'm personally conducting the Rising.

ThisIsNotAIBUPeople · 23/08/2019 17:56

@Labassecour oh get over yourself. You come across as extremely condescending. OP has asked for an explanation so she can learn. How about you help with that instead of looking down on high from your well educated throne?

Feduppluckingmychinhairs · 23/08/2019 18:00

@Apolloanddaphne I live in a county along the border and I just want to say it's good that you asked as opposed to the many who just don't care. The more this is talked about the better. I want people to know we are not faceless somebodies in a place far away. We are the same as anyone else trying to do our best for our families, but we are so very worried that the peace we have loved and been so grateful for will be literally blown to shreds, killing innocent people.

onalongsabbatical · 23/08/2019 18:02

I think anyone Irish is entitled to be a bit snippy at the very least on this subject. It behoves us (I'm English, kind of) to understand Anglo/Irish history as much as it behoves Germany to understand its history and therefore its obligations to civilisation. Frankly.

Flyingnextweek · 23/08/2019 18:05

apile brilliant! Still slipping through my brain but good explanation

bellinisurge · 23/08/2019 18:05

Op, I hope you will now write to your MP (even if she/he is a No Dealer meathead) and tell them you don't want No Deal and why.

bellinisurge · 23/08/2019 18:09

@chomalungma , on here a fair bit. In public fora, here's a photo that might help.

Faridge kept shutting down discussion of it because he knew it was the weak point in the whole fantasy. And not enough people stopped him.

Can someone explain the Irish backstop to me in very simple words?
Apolloanddaphne · 23/08/2019 18:12

I don't mind people being snippy. I can be snippy too when i want to!

I asked my DH about it and tbh he struggled to explain it eloquently and kept getting muddled. He is a business man who is dealing with Brexit planning at work. It is obviously a very complex issue.

Keep up the dialogue. I can see it is very important to make sure people are properly informed.

OP posts:
RunawayLove · 23/08/2019 18:19

Frankly, if people called out what is both (1) wilful ignorance and (2) colossal wilful ignorance about recent Anglo-Irish history rather more

Well, it might help if kids learned these things in their history lessons. Much of Britain's colonial history isn't taught, and Britain/Ireland/Troubles never even mentioned.

Apileofballyhoo · 23/08/2019 18:19

flying glad it's a help. It's a bit short of punctuation.

CheshireSplat · 23/08/2019 18:23

I don't think the word "backstop" helps - is it a common English word? What is a backstop? Was there one in rounders? Like a wicket keeper? I think "safety net" may have been a better interpretation.

Flyingnextweek · 23/08/2019 18:28

Agree Cheshire! Safety net would be much better

shortsaint · 23/08/2019 18:30

Some really clear explanations here.

Just gets me thinking... it is SO preposterous that this was not considered before. So arrogant. So shortsighted of Englanders. (I am one)

I also loathe now how the DUP have the balance of power.

I also fear the start of the Troubles all over again.

What an almighty COCK UP. Gahhhhhhghgghhhhhhhhhh...

Apolloanddaphne · 23/08/2019 18:30

I think I was interpreting backstop as back door which makes no sense I see!

OP posts:
ListeningQuietly · 23/08/2019 18:43

apileofballyhoo
wins the thread with this
And we'll all be fine with that because people never cheat the system and why so many countries with different taxes and regulations don't bother with physical border checks because there's no need

EverTheConundrum · 23/08/2019 18:47

@Apolloanddaphne I think Leigh purposely wrote it in jargon to be passive aggressive and make you feel thick. Trust me, you're not the only one who doesn't entirely get it x

Propertyofhood · 23/08/2019 18:47

Yes, I always think of rounders when I see 'backstop' on the news!

shortsaint I know, I cannot believe that this didn't even seem to be mentioned during any of the campaigns referendum or anything. If Remain had drawn attention to it 'there is a huge problem with Northern Ireland which is.... And this is just one example shows that Brexit isn't just as steaightforward as walking away from the EU' then maybe it would have given just a few people pause for thought. Why didn't they make a big thing of it at the time? Confused

TolstoyAteMyHamster · 23/08/2019 18:56

It was mentioned during the campaign! No one really listened (or cared) but it was one of the reasons I voted Remain (plus thinking freedom of movement within Europe) is a magnificent thing), despite having various Leave-leaning tendencies in other areas.

leghairdontcare · 23/08/2019 19:07

I have a degree in politics (and hoping to do a masters). I do not recall giving any thought to Northern Ireland and the Good Friday Agreement before the referendum. Of course, I could argue that by voting to remain the onus wasn't on me to worry about it.

I don't think anyone should be made to feel bad if they're only starting to think about this issue now. Except for Boris Johnson!

costacoffeecup · 23/08/2019 19:11

The thing is, the word 'backstop' makes it sound like it's a physical thing -like a border - when actually it's the opposite so I think that's why it gets confusing.