Can someone explain the Irish backstop to me in very simple words?

[Apolloanddaphne]

I am an intelligent woman with multiple degrees but i have to confess i have no idea what the back stop is. I am too scared to ask my DH or my friends lest they think i am an imbecile (lighthearted). I have tried googling it to read articles about it but i just don't get it.

One of my friends is Irish and has a piece in a newspaper today related this today. If it comes up in conversation next time i see him i would at least like to be able to say something semi intelligent about it!

Help me please. Use easy words. Thanks.

The problem is the ridiculous term “backstop”. It doesn’t help anyone to understand it. People know what a backstop is in sport but don’t know how it would apply to a border between countries.

It's covered on all media all the time!

But a lot of media coverage of Brexit is terrible, and often it is factually incorrect or fails to ask the right questions. Just reading or watching the media is no guarantee that you will understand complex trade issues, because most journalists don't understand them either. You are much better off listening to or reading people with relevant expertise eg on twitter where there are a few trade experts who are also good explainers.

My brain glazes over when Ireland is mentioned. To my mind the best solution would be to give Northern Ireland to the South, and be rid of it

Reunification of the island of Ireland would have to done by vote. Whether or not NI and ROI choose to do that is their choice. It can't be dictated from Westminster.

Helpful thread this has been. Assume the detailed posts are from those who reside, or have previously resided on the island of Ireland, or have have connections.

I don't remember much being said about border between NI and ROI during the campaign even by remain. I have done word search on the leaflet sent out by remain and the only reference to borders is in relation to immigration. No mention of potential border issues between NI and ROI.

The website EUreferendum.gov.uk suggests that a deal with EU may not be easy as exports from UK, as an individual member, to EU represent 8% of EU imports whereas it represents 44% of all UK exports. However, no reference to potential problems if a deal could not be made and the impacts on NI and ROI.

Mistigri

But a lot of media coverage of Brexit is terrible, and often it is factually incorrect or fails to ask the right questions

I disagree. I'm basing my information primarily on the Irish media, as well as coverage within Europe. It's definitely not terrible. RTÉ and The Irish Times have excellent coverage, from a variety of sources.

The UK media - a different story. It's not that it's terrible or necessarily factually incorrect. It's that the key points often get derailed by the irresponsible grandstanding by politicians and those who've adopted particular positions and turn every conversation / interview / debate into an opportunity to make their points, and not deal substantively with the topic.

The whole matter is skewed by the car crash that is British politics at the moment. The disaster of Boris Johnson & cronies in (God!) power, and the political vacuum that exists with Jeremy Corbyn's shocking lack of leadership and action.

IMO, very few proper conversations take place as every interview gets drawn back to the domestic political mess that exists.

And, I'm going to be honest, I'm frustrated by the general (and of course I'm generalising!) lack of interest at a public level in the detail of Brexit, and specifically, its impact on NI.

Those of us in Ireland are painfully aware of the fragility of the Peace Agreement and the potential for the undoing of 21 years of peace.

I also find it frustrating EarringsandLipstick . And I'm in the UK. I always have to check what is being said in the Irish media because stuff is ignored or downplayed STILL in the UK media.
It's like they realise people are bored and don't want to be mithered with detail. Which is how we got in this fucking mess around n the first place.

I disagree. I'm basing my information primarily on the Irish media, as well as coverage within Europe. It's definitely not terrible. RTÉ and The Irish Times have excellent coverage, from a variety of sources.

Some of the Irish media has very good coverage (in fairness so does some of the U.K. media: the FT and the economist in particular, both of which are subscription only.) However, I think that on a U.K. parenting website it is fair to assume that most people primarily consume their news from the U.K. media!

When historians look back at this sorry episode in British history, they will have a lot to say about the decline and fall of mainstream U.K. press and television coverage of Brexit. It has been almost universally woeful with very few exceptions.

And, I'm going to be honest, I'm frustrated by the general (and of course I'm generalising!) lack of interest at a public level in the detail of Brexit, and specifically, its impact on NI

Think many just want it to be over with and UK out of EU as dominating everything. Other subjects are being overlooked.

Nothing mentioned about NI during the campaign that I remember..

UK has 4 members, England, NI, Scotland and Wales. However, in terms of population the differences are huge with England making up 85% of the total.

Within England there is a North and South divide. London, South East and South West is 43% of England population with 24 million. Those three regions have not been impacted as severely as other regions as a result of the shift from manufacturing to services.

NI, Scotland and Wales combined population is around 10 million. So the more well off regions of England have total population more than double that of 3 member states of the UK. Likewise the population of London alone is close to the total of NI, Scotland and Wales.

History shows that the number of UK PM's from well off backgrounds, private schools and Oxford is huge.

Are they too far detached from "ordinary in the street people" to understand fears over day to day living, or is it elitism and the peasants must tow their line?

Helpful thread this has been. Assume the detailed posts are from those who reside, or have previously resided on the island of Ireland, or have have connections.

This has been a really helpful thread and great clear explanations from MindyStClaire and Apileofballyhoo and others.

People getting up to speed now is great and gaining a deep understanding of the complex issues is like water through your fingers sometimes.

The difference between the explanations here now on one little Mumsnet thread compared to non existent information put out by the government before the ref is a devastatingly stark contrast.

Rather than the leaflet and the fucking bus there should have been a detailed document available on line. It could have included the (alleged) benefits of relinquishing EU membership too.

Before the Scottish indyref there was a several hundred page detailed document which converted everything from tax, government, currency, elections etc. It was so detailed that in one small paragraph it even said what would happen to Scotland in the Eurovision song contest.

It is SO unforgivably preposterous that this was not considered before.

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P.s.
Stormont's absence hasn't been mentioned.

The point I have made previously on other threads is imagine you read about this condensed in a history book 100 years from now.( If books exist then). The book says the Westminster government holds an uninformed referendum on all this and as a result the hard won peace on the island of Ireland is cast aside. And , by coincidence^, this was at a time when :
• The Northern Ireland assembly founded in 1998 happened to be suspended so all the NI people could have no formal democratic representation.
• Only one NI political party namely the DUP was represented and was paid £1 Billion tax payers' money to give the Tory party a working majority in the House of Commons it would not otherwise have.^

Reading that as history you would think the timing was really dodgy wouldn't you? I know it isn't -but I do think everything with the EU should have been on hold and all hands should have been on deck to make a supreme effort get Stormont there representing NI before any steps were taken. Rather than paying to cosy up to a single NI party.

Mistigri

However, I think that on a U.K. parenting website it is fair to assume that most people primarily consume their news from the U.K. media!

That's absolutely fair! Totally accept that. 😊

MysteryTripAgain

Think many just want it to be over with and UK out of EU as dominating everything. Other subjects are being overlooked.

Your post is really interesting. That's a good point, and I can understand the frustration.

Just want to add my appreciation for the summaries provided by @Apileofballyhoo and @MindyStClaire. Younger people who haven't lived in Ireland struggle to understand what a long hard road it was to peace.

To the people who claim to understand the complexities but still support Brexit: what's your suggestion for resolving the issue?

What is unnerving me about this thread is that MN is still full of people blasting their Leaver opinions (when they aren't flouncing off as uncomfortable questions are asked). Do they know this stuff are are down playing it? Or do they just not know?
Shocking, really. And I thought I was out of shocks on this. I sort of hope it is the former and that the people asking on here are simply too intimidated to ask. Which would be a shame.

@SalitaeDiscesa - border in the sea/make NI a special economic area (a fancy name for NI only backstop)

what's your suggestion for resolving the issue?

The NI only backstop promoted by Bellini seemed to the least worst option, but some posters on other threads that also may lead to troubles as is feared if a hard border is placed between NI and ROI.

Curious to see what Johnson suggests at the end of the so called 30 days.

Free all Ireland economy aligned with EU. All paperwork done too and from crossing to mainland UK. Prosperity for NI. Peace fir NI. DUP get to be big fish in little NI pond still.

twitter.com/msmirandasawyer/status/1163005760273571841?s=19

For those interested in finding out more about Anglo Irish history and Irish culture & politics I highly recommend the Irish Passport podcast (review in link). You can dip in and out of topics and I think it's a really even handed, easily comprehensible overview.

I agree with Bellini : resolution is to bring back the original WA with the NI only backstop. There is no way to please everyone: this will piss off the DUP and possibly some Scots who object to NI getting special treatment. There are those who say it is unacceptable as it will break up the union but a hard Brexit is much more likely to force NI AND Scotland out.

I know the Channel Islands and the Isle of man have some kind of special status...do people there feel less British ? (Genuine question....)

Free all Ireland economy aligned with EU

Sounds easy, but obviously it is not otherwise would not be a sticking point. Some posters on other threads seem to think an NI only backstop could lead to the same troubles that are feared in the event of a hard border.

Trimble, who was awarded the Nobel Prize for the 1998 GFA thinks that an NI only backstop contradicts the GFA in terms of mutual consent? Guessing that is the DUP & ERG objection to the NI only backstop suggestion?

I am just struggling to understand how a border for trusted traders works with the basics...

As a person, I have an allowance I can bring into a country. Alcohol, cigarettes etc. We've all seen the red and green channels at airports, have you anything to declare. The things you are not allowed to bring in.

So what happens if we have different customs regulations to the EU? Will we have a system for people and cars who travel between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland? How will such Customs Regulations be imposed? We don't have Red and Green channels for people travelling from Northern Ireland to the rest of the UK?

I haven't seen any answers to that question anywhere.

Apollo and daphne, thank you for asking this. I wasn’t sure and felt pretty silly about not knowing too. Mindy and Bowsy thank you for your explanations, they are clear and excellent and it’s as awful as I suspected.

I am pleased that my thread has got so many people willing to share their knowledge with me and others less well informed.

I have to say though the more recent posts are obviously by people who really understand the intricacies of Brexit and the Irish backdrop because I feel I am back to reading in French again!

I don't want to put people off posting, but can we keep this thread as Brexit for Dummies??Give us these opinions but in easy ways to understand.

I think the problem is that the 'Irish Question' can't really be reduced to a Brexit for Dummies level. It's dogged British Governments for more than 100 years. Splitting the island into RoI and NI was something of a fudge, but the problems didn't go away. The GFA was another fudge but again, the tensions haven't fully gone away. This is IMO.

I think anything that singles NI out is going to cause friction because the DUP have said no to it. Loyalists won't like it. As a teen I used to wonder why we couldn't just give NI back so to speak but I didn't understand anything about politics then. I had brothers stationed in NI and lived in a constant state of anxiety. Mum said to me yesterday, "do you remember your brother having to check under his car [for bombs]? " Only too well. And the coded messages for when they'd be home on leave. Not opening post we weren't expecting. Feeling intense anxiety every time the news came on in case there'd been another bomb. That was the late 80s early 90s.
My then boyfriend worked in Manchester in 1996 and we heard of the IRA bomb on the radio. We were on Anglesey at the time. I'll never forget the devastation that took over a year to rectify.

I can't see a unified Ireland happening in my lifetime as so many don't want it.

I've said this on other threads but I'll say it again: please don't think that those outside of Ireland or Northern Ireland don't care about the people there or peace or the GFA. Some of us care very much and are very worried what brexit will do.

I think the problem is that the 'Irish Question' can't really be reduced to a Brexit for Dummies level

And it's a disgrace that we had a simple referendum, with a biased media, with politicians that rely on soundbites to vote on something which has massive ramifications for the island of Ireland - something which people in most of the UK know very little bit and who have had only one side of the debate presented to them.

It is complicated. Unfortunately such a complex debate gets little detailed airtime in the UK as many people don't want to know or don't care.

I cannot believe Boris Johnson can't see the ramifications.