Westminstenders: 30 days to save us all!

[RedToothBrush]

It's quite remarkable to watch the British press atm.

It's like it doesn't understand English. Well only if its English spoken by foreigners.

Merkel made the observation that the UK had spent two years looking at the Irish border but had failed to come up with a workable solution, and now Johnson has waltzed in and made statements about how the backstop must go, and only has 30 days in which this can be achieved.

The British press writes this up as Merkel giving the UK a deadline to come up with a new solution.

Which is nonsense. The UK have a deadline to save itself, from itself and that's 31st October. This is a self imposed deadline.

Meanwhile comes out with the Brexiteer smack down that he didn't think the UK wS leaving the EU to regain its sovereignty only to become a vassalage or junior partner to the US.

Both these ideas being the result of leaving the EU have long been key issues. From before the ref. Both have been the UK's to solve in order to get the terms the UK wants from a deal.

The referendum was about choosing to align with the EU or to ditch that and rights and align closely with the US. Then Trump happened and the sell on this got harder, but still essentially the same. And it continues.

And then there was the Irish border. The magic solution to Brexit that doesn't break the GFA. I personally think there isn't one as long as the DUP have their red lines about the Irish sea.

So here we are. More than 3 years after the ref.

Leavers still have no plan. Apart for charge headlong over the cliff. Remains still have their heads wedged up their own backsides and also, after spending months criticising every one else on social media anyway who makes a stand again this bull shit.

Yet the newspapers fail to report what Merkel said or why the UK has this issue in the first place. Its an ongoing exercise in national delusion and self denial.

Iceland can also grow its own bananas and tomatoes!

Iceland is sitting on a geothermal goldmine (as visitors to the blue lagoon know ). But - and once again it highlights the differences in approaches - I'm pretty certain that they use it to provide almost every house with free hot water. Not the sort of thing the Anglo-Saxon society has every really got to grips with ... with it's addition of "flog it" to the evolutionary imperative of "eat it, fuck it, fight it" towards the world.

but if we’re getting contrasting answers from 2 experts,
& very few buying customs software or appointing the few agents to process this all,

does not bode well

Every trader sending goods into the EU from outside the EU already needs an EU EORI number. They get the number from the authorities in the first EU country they export to. I know Irish numbers are issued very quickly, I've no idea about anyone else.

These aren't new procedures, they're actually simplified compared with what currently happens with a shipment to Switzerland or Ukraine (for example).

Re the process being more IT based and lorries not having to wait in queues.....

Ferry companies (like airlines) will not load a lorry whose paperwork does not tie up ....so they will check ....which will take a currently "no paperwork" situation to a "can we check that you have a 150 part groupage on board" which is unlikely to take less than five minutes

....as described to me by TiP

And given the numbers of trailers that use the Short Straits (which Raab hadn't realised was so critical for UK-EU trade ), which at present operate on a RORO basis, any delay of even 30 seconds, let alone 5 minutes, for even a small proportion of the commercial traffic, let alone the 20 minute average (iirc) at the Norway-Sweden border (apparently one of the most technologically advanced in the world, and that's with Norway in the SM ), would result in gridlock pretty quickly

Yes, DGR, free heating and hot water, we think (or for a low municipal fee). We went to a power station (romance is so not dead!) and it was fascinating!

Nick Eardley @nickeardleybbc
NEW: UK writes to EU confirming it will not nominate a new commissioner.

PM had said so in Commons already - this confirms.

Trade is obv vastly more IT-based than before we joined the Common Market
(about that time, I started computer studies with paper tape & punch cards !)

However, can the software on both sides of the Channel cope with the Uk being a new 3rd country
and also be compatible with each other ?

I have a nightmare of a logjammed Dover and Calais, while French customs / inspections stand chewing their pencils, staring at a wodge of paper forms

.which will take a currently "no paperwork" situation to a "can we check that you have a 150 part groupage on board" which is unlikely to take less than five minutes

Staff will need to be trained in manual processes then. Or trained staff will need to be shipped in. The question is "from where ?". We're back to the fact that the UK outside the UK with no deal in place becomes globally unique. With no parallels to draw on and everything having to be done from scratch. Which would be a daunting enough prospect in a normal country.

I'm pretty certain that they [Iceland] use it to provide almost every house with free hot water.

They do. They even have heated pavements and roads as the hot water is a by product of the electricity generation.

I've been on interesting tours of two of the geothermal power stations - although a lot of their energy is actually from hydro. It's apparently increased in capacity as a result of increased meltwater from the glaciers They can also bring on/build new capacity much more quickly than "conventional" power stations over here because of all that lovely geothermal power.

However, can the software on both sides of the Channel cope with the Uk being a new 3rd country and also be compatible with each other ?

It's go (looks) 69 days.

But, hey, Y2K and all that ?

In tough and changing circumstances, institutional memory of similar events is very important

Remember that a lot of our trade isn't with Europe. The current procedure for exporting something from Australia (or wherever) to the UK is exactly the same as the intended future procedure for exporting from UK to EU. The same agents are involved, and the same computer systems.

The point is that existing 3rd countries know the system and know how to get their EU EORI numbers

I'm not convinced that most UK exporters have fully processed what becoming a 3rd country means, in terms of the extra processes they have to do

I expect some will trundle up to Dover with the same documentation they always used, then be very indignant when their vehicles are not allowed to board.

I also hope the staff in Dover checking documentation can do so efficiently

Fishes is right.
The software is in place because it is what is used at all of the container ports which deal with every country in the world under every variant of trade deal.

The difficulty is that container ports work at a rather different pace than the Channel Tunnel
as Christmas decorations do not rot after 24 hours

You see the fact that Iceland immediate decided to provide all citizens with the benefits of living in Iceland compares starkly with the Anglo-American obsession with everyone having to pay for everything and an absolute horror of anything free.

If you follow the less technical developments in the internet, you'll know how the past 15 years have been a succession of attempts by various US megacorps to make money of of the "free". Net neutrality being the key watchword.

The problem with that approach, is it leads to the beancounter bunfight where you try and take ownership of "revenue" while at the same time disowning "expenditure". Or "Google" as it's better known.

Exactly like local authorities that save a few grand by switching off street lamps after midnight because they aren't the ones paying the extra costs of police, ambulance and fire services for the uptick in RTAs.

I wonder how many businesses currently only export to the EU, nowhere else Not many ?
They'd probably need an agent to handle it all for them, if it doesn't drive up costs too much for the small firms

Also, will the UK even be on the EU databases of 3rd countries after a disorderly No Deal ?

Remember that a lot of our trade isn't with Europe.

?

?

Well obviously I meant the EU, not Europe but my point was that we already know how to import/export to/from the EU, because about 50% of our trade isn't with the EU as it is.

placemarking to read back and catch up later.
thanks, Red and all who contribute.

I asked STBEXH yesterday if he was not worried about getting his inhaler meds and he said: 'oh, they won't let me run out'.
Who? says I, 'The Govt' he said. I wish I had his confidence.
I also asked was he not sad that Ds and Dd would not be able to study and work in Europe when they are older after a hard Brexit.
He said: 'it's ok, they can still go on holiday if they want to'.
Guess what he voted? I despair.

They also eat puffin and year-old rotten shark in Iceland.

Maybe this is our post-Brexit future?

They are in full-on stop Brexit mode.

Are they though? I still like the term meatloaf remainers

You can get whale topped with grated puffin. Lovely. 🤮 (I'm not sure on how you grate a puffin!)

They also do sheep head in one cafe we went into. Double 🤮🤮

It's a stunning country though, so I'll forgive them!

Marking place. Am not a regular contributor, but posted on the previous thread and while I don't care if people read it now or not, I really do want to say what I had to say. Hope no one minds the C+P from there (the photo thread, the most recent before this)....

"It is back to the future with the 30 day issue. EU know nothing will be proposed within 30 days or ever for that matter, other than ditching the backstop and going No Deal. They know, and we know deep down too. So what gives?

I read the ROI newspapers online to get a real feel for what is going on. It is generally unbiased, meaning they are not demonising UK but positing the outcome of No Deal in relation to that country and other EU countries with which UK was once very friendly with, Netherlands for example. Tony Connelly on Twitter is a good source of information too.

I urge people to see and read what others are saying, and find a middle ground somewhere, anywhere!

Is it really OK for the UK to crash out and destroy its friendly neighbours in the process? I don't think so.

But this has become a cultish pursuit of winning at any cost.

The press in UK is polarised right down the middle. Telegraph... not read by the Guardian readers and vice versa. Daily Mail - well enough said there! And so on."

The Icelandic lamb stew is gorgeous, no need to eat shark or puffin.... #justsaying

The Icelandic lamb stew is gorgeous, no need to eat shark or puffin.... #justsaying

Best lamb I've ever eaten was Icelandic. Its a must do.

I rarely eat fish but I have made an effort when I'm there.

Love the country and would go back in a heartbeat though last time I went the coach loads of tourists (ignoring the warning signs everywhere) were dreadful.

I want to go back but go to parts I've not yet got to.

not sure on how you grate a puffin?

....with a puffin-grater, ahcourse!

Every post-Brexit home should have one.

(Will also grate pigeons, starlings and other sources of valuable protein.)