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Brexit

Westminstenders: 30 days to save us all!

970 replies

RedToothBrush · 23/08/2019 00:28

It's quite remarkable to watch the British press atm.

It's like it doesn't understand English. Well only if its English spoken by foreigners.

Merkel made the observation that the UK had spent two years looking at the Irish border but had failed to come up with a workable solution, and now Johnson has waltzed in and made statements about how the backstop must go, and only has 30 days in which this can be achieved.

The British press writes this up as Merkel giving the UK a deadline to come up with a new solution.

Which is nonsense. The UK have a deadline to save itself, from itself and that's 31st October. This is a self imposed deadline.

Meanwhile comes out with the Brexiteer smack down that he didn't think the UK wS leaving the EU to regain its sovereignty only to become a vassalage or junior partner to the US.

Both these ideas being the result of leaving the EU have long been key issues. From before the ref. Both have been the UK's to solve in order to get the terms the UK wants from a deal.

The referendum was about choosing to align with the EU or to ditch that and rights and align closely with the US. Then Trump happened and the sell on this got harder, but still essentially the same. And it continues.

And then there was the Irish border. The magic solution to Brexit that doesn't break the GFA. I personally think there isn't one as long as the DUP have their red lines about the Irish sea.

So here we are. More than 3 years after the ref.

Leavers still have no plan. Apart for charge headlong over the cliff. Remains still have their heads wedged up their own backsides and also, after spending months criticising every one else on social media anyway who makes a stand again this bull shit.

Yet the newspapers fail to report what Merkel said or why the UK has this issue in the first place. Its an ongoing exercise in national delusion and self denial.

OP posts:
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prettybird · 26/08/2019 11:22

I predict "bumps in the road" as being Blowjob's mantra excuse in the coming days/weeks/months Wink

May it come to haunt him in the way that "Nothing's changed, NOTHING'S changed!!!" or " Weak and wobbly Strong and stable" haunted May. Grin

DGRossetti · 26/08/2019 11:49

Well worth putting the volume up for this:

www.facebook.com/KeepBritainInEurope/videos/867580063625767/UzpfSTczNDU2ODIzNjY4NTY5ODoxNDkxNjQxOTIwOTc4MzIy/

mainly because it's pretty true.

Imagine what pressure will be on Spains government from "the will of the people" if there is no deal ?

JustAnotherPoster00 · 26/08/2019 12:00

www.ft.com/content/ffdb6e8c-c5c8-11e9-a8e9-296ca66511c9

Sun boycott reduced Euroscepticism on Merseyside, study shows
Researchers find positive influence on Remain vote in Brexit referendum

A long-running boycott of The Sun newspaper on Merseyside reduced Euroscepticism in the area and had a positive influence on its Remain vote in the Brexit referendum, university researchers have concluded.

Florian Foos of the London School of Economics and Daniel Bischof of Zurich university said their research showed that the mass media could influence public opinion, but that the effect takes place over years rather than a single political campaign.

Pro-EU politicians and campaigners have long claimed that newspapers such as the Eurosceptic Sun, owned by Rupert Murdoch’s News Group, have shaped the public’s view of the bloc.

Mr Foos and Mr Bischof tracked Merseyside’s view of the EU before and after the 1989 Hillsborough disaster, in which 96 Liverpool fans died during a game between the club and Nottingham Forest at Sheffield Wednesday’s stadium.

The Sun caused outrage on Merseyside by running a front-page story shortly after that wrongly blamed the tragedy on unruly behaviour by Liverpool fans, and this prompted many people in the area to stop buying the best-selling tabloid.

Estimated daily sales fell from 55,000 to 12,000, although The Sun has never confirmed the figures.

Kelvin MacKenzie, editor of The Sun in 1989, apologised in 2012 to the people of Liverpool after an independent inquiry found that the Hillsborough tragedy was not caused by fans at the game but rather failures by the authorities.

Mr Foos said that many of The Sun’s working-class readers on Merseyside switched to the Daily Mirror, which was positive about the EU.

“We show that attitudes towards the EU got significantly more positive in Merseyside during the boycott [of The Sun],” said the report by Mr Foos and Mr Bischof.

“Merseyside is about 10 percentage points less Eurosceptic in the 2016 EU referendum than the remaining UK compared to the 1975 [EU membership] referendum.”

The academics drew on data from the British Social Attitudes survey — an annual review of Britons’ attitudes to multiple topics including the EU — spanning the years from 1985 to 2004, after which it stopped recording where people lived.

The survey showed that the entire UK became more Europhile in the 1990s but that Merseyside did to a greater extent, and the academics compared the area with 21 other English counties with similar demographics.

“People in Merseyside were more Eurosceptic before Hillsborough than others in the north [of England] and that trend has been interrupted by the boycott [of the Sun],” said Mr Foos.

In 1989, 34 per cent of people in Merseyside wanted to leave the EU, against 25 per cent in comparable English counties. In 2004, the figures were 14 per cent and 18 per cent, respectively.

In the 2016 Brexit referendum, Merseyside voted 51 to 49 per cent to Remain, with 58 per cent of people in Liverpool backing staying in the EU.

Mr Foos said the vote on Merseyside would have been about 60 to 40 per cent in favour of Leave without the boycott of The Sun.

Mr Foos said he could not extrapolate the report’s findings about Merseyside across the country.

Had there been a boycott of The Sun in a southern English county, readers might have switched to the Eurosceptic Daily Mail rather than the Mirror, he added.

The academics adjusted their findings for factors such as party political support and demographic change, as well as the fact that Merseyside has received hundreds of millions of pounds of EU development funding.

Their report is being published at the American Political Science Association’s annual meeting in Washington on August 30. It has yet to be peer reviewed or published in a journal but is available on the internet.

DGRossetti · 26/08/2019 12:18

The thing is, trying to match people to politics via the medium of newspapers may as well try and use interpretive dance.

My DM was a lifelong Daily Mail reader, and yet know it was full of bollocks. But she had a point that the Express, and Mirror simply weren't even in the same town when it came to being a newspaper. Beyond that it would have to be a broadsheet, and it's hard to escape the nagging feeling they remained in broadsheet format for so long to deter the proles.

Fuck it, I used to buy the Daily Mail for years for the same reason. Until the Times went tabloid.

A colleague I worked with also "took the Mail", but that was because he didn't buy a TV guide, and his wife liked the Womens articles ... but given the water cooler talk, neither of them would be Tory voters.

Similarly, I know "Mirror" readers who were true blue Tory voters (but preferred the sports pages).

BigChocFrenzy · 26/08/2019 12:23

This is just the Netherlands;
Many small UK firms are moving to Estonia, another proactive country with high % English-speakers

Hundreds of British firms in talks to move to Netherlands

Brexit relocation puts thousands of jobs at risk

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/business/hundreds-of-british-firms-in-talks-to-move-to-the-netherlands-fl32zkld3

The Dutch government is in talks with 325 British-based companies that are considering relocating after Brexit,
The Times has learnt.

In a sign of growing anxiety in Britain about the prospect of a no-deal departure from the European Union,
the Dutch investment agencycy_ said it had already completed talks with a further 100 groups.^

They include Sony and Panasonic, the Japanese electronics companies, which this year unveiled plans to move their European bases to the Netherlands.

A string of media companies, including Bloomberg and the Discovery television channel, are also moving some London-based staff to Amsterdam.

DGRossetti · 26/08/2019 12:25
Grin

DB just pinged me, asking if there are any grown ups left in the UK ?

Apparently it's not a great idea to diss a much loved American institution like McDonalds, if you want to win favour. Who knew ?

Westminstenders: 30 days to save us all!
DGRossetti · 26/08/2019 12:26

Many small UK firms are moving to Estonia, another proactive country with high % English-speakers

My passport is ready to go ...

My Italian one that is ...

cherin · 26/08/2019 12:33

Well if you go to Italy you’ll find a country without PM, and the most likely candidate is a right wing xenophobic, extremely popular thanks to his DJ-ing in beach trunks next to pretty little girls, and his opposition to pick up drowning migrants from the Mediterranean
....
Sometimes, it’s good to know that there’s further room at the bottom....

ListeningQuietly · 26/08/2019 12:35

PMK

prettybird · 26/08/2019 12:55

Don't think DGR is planning on going to Italy; just that his Italian passport allows him to go anywhere in the EU - like Belgium and Estonia where there are high percentages of English speakers Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 26/08/2019 12:58

A hard right politician has far more potential to carry out the most hardline policies and abandon civilised standards if the economy collapses.

We'll probably see that after No Deal

That's why the hard right dream about e.g. Italy leaving the EU
However, the UK has been a sharp warning to voters in Italy and elsewhere in the E27 who might have been been considering that wilful act of self-harm

Apileofballyhoo · 26/08/2019 13:06

If you do that you can just save the whole page from your browser (or print it to a PDF file).

Thanks DGR.

Icantreachthepretzels · 26/08/2019 13:06

In fairness to Alan Duncan MP I don't think he's trying to curry favour with the U.S. Isn't he the one who resigned a ministerial position, tried to bring about a VONC but was blocked by Bercow and has, in the past couple of days, just reactivated his twitter account for reasons we will know more about when parliament reconvenes?

Admittedly his tweet wasn't 'grown up' ... but trolling and pissing off both Boris and Donnie was the aim of it.

tobee · 26/08/2019 13:13

I see that Lord Tim Bell has died.

The former advertising man responsible for the infamous "Labour Isn't Working" posters

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-49471054

DGRossetti · 26/08/2019 13:37

Well if you go to Italy you’ll find a country without PM, and the most likely candidate is a right wing xenophobic, extremely popular thanks to his DJ-ing in beach trunks next to pretty little girls, and his opposition to pick up drowning migrants from the Mediterranean

As prettybird noted, an Italian passport allows me to live & work in any one of the EU27 countries.

Incidentally, how are all those companies decamping to the Netherlands going to move their staff if they don't have an EU passport ?

borntobequiet · 26/08/2019 13:42

Rory Stewart is Frodo, obv. The question is, who is Gandalf?

TheABC · 26/08/2019 13:52

Just seen Johnson in the guardian warning Parliament that "they don't get to choose No-Deal".

Yep, not inflammatory at all. This guy wants to be stopped.

TheMShip · 26/08/2019 13:54

That's quite apt analogy to LOTR. I suspect Corbyn is Saruman.

TheABC · 26/08/2019 13:55

@borntobequiet

Could Gordon Brown be Gandalf? He has just called for an inquiry into No Deal.

Socksontheradiator · 26/08/2019 14:19

I really want Corbyn to be Gandalf!

DGRossetti · 26/08/2019 14:37

Could Gordon Brown be Gandalf? He has just called for an inquiry into No Deal

Because all we needed to stop Hitler was an inquiry ?

DGRossetti · 26/08/2019 15:11

Could Gordon Brown be Gandalf?

No.

DGRossetti · 26/08/2019 15:21

.

Westminstenders: 30 days to save us all!
prettybird · 26/08/2019 15:31

Sorry, I can't thole Brown and therefore can't see him as Gandalf Angry. Not since he patronised Scots with his pre-Indyref "speeches" (which were then concocted by the MSM into a supposedly formal "vow" , with figleaf approval from the Conservatives, Labour and the LibDems), "promising" us extra devolved powers, statutory status for the Scottish Government so that its decisions couldn't be over-ruled by WM and claimed that there would be increased federalism and "respect within the union" Angry

Don't get me started AngryAngry

SwedishEdith · 26/08/2019 15:32

Paul Brand
@PaulBrandITV

EXCLUSIVE: I understand cross-party MPs will gather for a symbolic meeting at Church House in Westminster tomorrow, signing a declaration opposing any suspension of parliament and promising to form alternative Commons if so. Attendance expected from all opposition party leaders.

I must admit that forming an alternative state seems tempting.